silverfoxnik Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Hi Folks, Okay, I've been thinking about this for a while now so I thought I'd share it with you all to see what you think. Every time I see a bass for sale it always says something in the blurb like 'amazing range of tones', 'tones to die for', or the classic one: 'nails that P-Bass/J-bass/Ricky/Gibson/MM/Tobias/Smith/Miller/Jamerson/Entwhistle tone' etc, etc. I've even said things like that myself when selling a bass on Ebay. But the thing is, when I use a bass - and I've had so many different ones I've pretty much lost count - I always find myself going for two or three really basic tones because they're the ones that I find work best with the most songs/bands. Here's what I think the really true classic bass tones are:- 1) Classic P-Bass (single pick up) - can be used on almost anything 2) Classic J-Bass (2 single coils) - can be used on almost anything 3) Funky Bridge pick up (think MM, J-Bass bridge p/up) - great for funk, jazz etc The other two real contenders as classic bass tones for me are the: 4) Rickenbacker 'clang' - great for rock, new wave, indie etc 5) The flatwound sound - 60's soul, Jazz, French pop... Apart from those, the only other 'tone' that I've used for years now is the 'Wal' tone, which almost makes a fretted bass sound like a fretless. But that's it for me and I'm wondering if all others are just variations on those classic tones invented in the 50s and 60s??? Maybe it's that my playing style and taste is too unadventurous and limited, so I thought I'd throw it over to you to see if there really are endless varieties of tones that we should keep GAS-sing for? Nik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 The 'Graphite' sound That clean thin 80s tone. Also an even sounding 5-6/ERB tone. I even believe in an Ibanez tone. You also get the 'Grind' Tone (Tool,modern metal like Killswitch) but that comes from boxes and Sansamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 There's the short-scale sound as well. Which also brings to mind that muddy sound typified by an EB-3 or Telebass. And also the semi-sound of the Rivoli/EB-2 - rounded attack and often less sustain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 The T-Bird sound, surely! The Attitude sound. I agree with the Ibanez tone statement. Especially since I put some DR Fatbeams on mine. It's very nice now. I've sort of got my own favourite; a sort of "singing" mid-range sound, but with a mildly rolled-off top and a smooth low-end. Odd how similar designs can sound so different; I've two Jazzes, an MIA and a Squier 70's VMJ. They're like chalk and cheese. The MIA is all smooth and soft, but with that singing mid. The Squier seems to thing it's a G&L ASAT or a Fender Marcus Miller. Grrrrrrr! (and it slaps and grinds well, too!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 "The funk's in the fingers, not the bass" Almost every bass I've had I've ended up with a simillar sound the the previous ones, purely because I have a sound in my head that I like, and I end up with something simillar whatever I'm playing, Stingray, Precision, Thunderbird, Jazz all a simillar end result soundwise for me, although they're all "capable" of many different tones depending on the player. At the end of the day, [i]for me[/i], a precision, for instance, would be just fine for almost any style of music. Who needs anything else? Your sound's in your fingers, not the pieces of wood and wire between them. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 i do like a good slapper or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Nik, My guess is that there is as many answers to this as there people on this forum..... We are all going to have our own 'ideals' based upon our own preferances in music, basses, strings, amps, and effects....... One mans 'amazing' is another mans 'crap' so it is completely subjective....... I have two almost identcial basses and they sound different, even with exactly the same strings on, so if that is taken into consideration each and every bass COULD have its own version of a sound! so again another degree of subjectivity....... Whilst I agree it is fine to say -- 'I love the way X sounded on that recording' -- there is no guarnatee that if you went out and bought exactly the same gear as was used in that recording another player could replicate that sound. Certain types of bass will broadly make certain tones.... but to be honest..... There isnt really any bass tones that I dislike.......... Some I prefer to others and I have basses that reflect that particular genre..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 [quote name='Musky' post='24266' date='Jun 28 2007, 08:44 AM']There's the short-scale sound as well. Which also brings to mind that muddy sound typified by an EB-3 or Telebass. And also the semi-sound of the Rivoli/EB-2 - rounded attack and often less sustain.[/quote] Ah yes .. Andy Fraser in Free and John Wetton on Family's glorious track "Burlesque" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) The big woody tone of a semi-acoustic. - I was thinking Beatles, but I never really felt big and woody from McCartney's playing. --- For a nice semi tone, try and get a hold of "Love That Boy" by Innocence Mission. paul. Edited July 9, 2007 by paul, the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I've a Line 6 Variaxe bass which contains most of the 'tones' that you've mentioned. I have to admit I can pretty much replicate most of the tones contained in that basses armoury (with the exception of the synth & 12 string) using virtually any of my Warwicks (my P/J equipped Streamer Stage I being the easiest to do it with). As mentioned previously; your fingers, where on the string you pluck, muting, string type, EQ setting, pup pan etc can all aid in replicating the tone of virtually any of the basses mentioned. Plus, the actual bass used to house the Line 6 gubbins is no better than a cheap Far East Fender copy, so I'd rather work my way around a better quality instrument's abilities than have a bass that doesn't inspire me. Oh and aren't I going to look a right 'plum' when I come to sell my line 6 bass in a couple of years and someone reminds me of this piece of writing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 [quote name='Rayman' post='24423' date='Jun 28 2007, 01:59 PM']"The funk's in the fingers, not the bass" Almost every bass I've had I've ended up with a simillar sound the the previous ones, purely because I have a sound in my head that I like, and I end up with something simillar whatever I'm playing, Stingray, Precision, Thunderbird, Jazz all a simillar end result soundwise for me, although they're all "capable" of many different tones depending on the player. At the end of the day, [i]for me[/i], a precision, for instance, would be just fine for almost any style of music. Who needs anything else? Your sound's in your fingers, not the pieces of wood and wire between them. Just my opinion.[/quote] Agreed,but a stock Fender P is a tad kak at a slap tone. But all instruments,set up in the way I like with the string guage I prefer will after time sound like me,even a Ricky or an EB3. Ive liked some basses,ive disliked others,its rare that I fiddle with the onboard eq,and if I have to it means Im not liking the bass or the musical situation or the engineers useless. I still think Ibanez didnt make a 'great' Bass after the late 80s,until about 96-97. With exception to the Soundgear 800 series or above,but they have got a synthy sound that goes well with distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I don't know about you guys but I tend to play differently on different basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 [quote name='The Funk' post='24512' date='Jun 28 2007, 04:19 PM']I don't know about you guys but I tend to play differently on different basses.[/quote] What...do you play with your elbows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 [quote name='The Funk' post='24512' date='Jun 28 2007, 04:19 PM']I don't know about you guys but I tend to play differently on different basses.[/quote] i know what you mean, when i used to have the ray i played back over the pickup, but now with my ibanez i play over the neck pickup but do move around more on this bass because of the range of tones i can get, with the ray it was really used just as the ray sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 [quote name='The Burpster' post='24428' date='Jun 28 2007, 02:13 PM']Nik, My guess is that there is as many answers to this as there people on this forum..... We are all going to have our own 'ideals' based upon our own preferances in music, basses, strings, amps, and effects....... Whilst I agree it is fine to say -- 'I love the way X sounded on that recording' -- there is no guarnatee that if you went out and bought exactly the same gear as was used in that recording another player could replicate that sound. Certain types of bass will broadly make certain tones.... but to be honest..... There isnt really any bass tones that I dislike.......... Some I prefer to others and I have basses that reflect that particular genre..... "The funk's in the fingers, not the bass" Almost every bass I've had I've ended up with a simillar sound the the previous ones, purely because I have a sound in my head that I like, and I end up with something simillar whatever I'm playing, Stingray, Precision, Thunderbird, Jazz all a simillar end result soundwise for me, although they're all "capable" of many different tones depending on the player. At the end of the day, for me, a precision, for instance, would be just fine for almost any style of music. Who needs anything else? Your sound's in your fingers, not the pieces of wood and wire between them. Just my opinion.[/quote] I definitely agree with you both - wasn't it Carlos Santana who said that your sound comes from your fingers and he should probably know? And, when we hear a bass sound on record, in general, it's not the pure sound of the bass player and his gear we're listening too anyway. His/her original recording will have gone through any number of processes by the time it's mixed down anyway. So, copying their gear won't automatically replicate their pure sound anyway..And that's without taking into account the way each of us plays. But just being devil's advocate a bit longer - whilst there's some really good points made here (thinking graphite and synth tones for example..), I'm still not 100% convinced that there really are loads and loads of really good different tones out there. More that there are lots of good variations on a small number of classic tones that work time and again...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='24648' date='Jun 28 2007, 10:38 PM']I definitely agree with you both - wasn't it Carlos Santana who said that your sound comes from your fingers and he should probably know? And, when we hear a bass sound on record, in general, it's not the pure sound of the bass player and his gear we're listening too anyway. His/her original recording will have gone through any number of processes by the time it's mixed down anyway. So, copying their gear won't automatically replicate their pure sound anyway..And that's without taking into account the way each of us plays. But just being devil's advocate a bit longer - whilst there's some really good points made here (thinking graphite and synth tones for example..), I'm still not 100% convinced that there really are loads and loads of really good different tones out there. More that there are lots of good variations on a small number of classic tones that work time and again...?[/quote] If Basses were great from the get go,then there'd be no need for FX,D.I.s and all manner of studio stuff. Bottom line is a great player will shine regardless of the gear hes using or playing,the reverse of which Is rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwbassman Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 [quote name='lowhand_mike' post='24527' date='Jun 28 2007, 04:43 PM']i know what you mean, when i used to have the ray i played back over the pickup, but now with my ibanez i play over the neck pickup but do move around more on this bass because of the range of tones i can get, with the ray it was really used just as the ray sound.[/quote] I've been told a few times that the bass sounds like 'me'... in other words I'm pretty convinced that no matter which bass I'm using it will sound like me playing, so in agreement that the music come from you not the instrument (tool) that you're using... Also agree with lowhand_mike that depending upon where you play you can get a wide range of sounds - I love playing over the fingerboard on my fretless and it growls... beautifully - but when I need to drive drop back over the pickups and really dig in, must admit I tend to use the back pick most of the time, just find it gives that sound I've grown used to, I think there's something in that to... when you use a sound for a while you do get use to it and subsequently try and make any new gear, be it bass, amp or effect sound like the sound you're use to... it late and I'm rambling, apologies.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='24648' date='Jun 28 2007, 10:38 PM']But just being devil's advocate a bit longer - whilst there's some really good points made here (thinking graphite and synth tones for example..), I'm still not 100% convinced that there really are loads and loads of really good different tones out there. More that there are lots of good variations on a small number of classic tones that work time and again...?[/quote] Nik..... 1stly....... Santana...... GOD! (oh and BTW--- he is PRS's finest officiando!) And 2ndly on your above point..... Unless I am mistaken, human hearing is quite limited, and at the edges of our hearing ability our sensitivity diminishes (as it does with age) ... so to be able to pick up slight variations of what we perceive to be tone can down to an individuals hearing (or lack of it) ...... eg. my guitarist has recently changed his hi fi... he bought some new speaker wires at the same time... having read that wires can sound different if used in different directions, we tried them both ways..... guess what ? listening to the same piece of music he was convimced the mids and highs were richer one way I was conviced the bass was richer the other but to each of us there was no noticable variation in what we could hear the other way (so only one way sounded better) ...! So; was there any diference at all OR is our hearing trained to pick up certain nuances within the music because of or differing disciplines???? I am fairly convinced that the frequency of note that we hear is constant on all music, and how we percieve it is different and maybe down to the individual level, so what you percieve to be twangy maybe my warm or vice versa..... Oh, this is going to be a can of worms I suspect...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 [quote name='The Burpster' post='24788' date='Jun 29 2007, 11:22 AM']........ convinced that the frequency of note that we hear is constant on all music, and how we percieve it is different and maybe down to the individual level, so what you percieve to be twangy maybe my warm or vice versa.....[/quote] Yep. There are peole who like the Chris Squire/Mark King end of the sound spectrum and people who like the Jah Wobble/Dub end. Seems to me that there are no bad tones. Just ones you like and ones you don't like. If someone tells you this is "....a tone to die for" in an ad you know they're just selling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted June 29, 2007 Author Share Posted June 29, 2007 [quote name='The Burpster' post='24788' date='Jun 29 2007, 11:22 AM']Nik..... 1stly....... Santana...... GOD! (oh and BTW--- he is PRS's finest officiando!) And 2ndly on your above point..... Unless I am mistaken, human hearing is quite limited, and at the edges of our hearing ability our sensitivity diminishes (as it does with age) ... so to be able to pick up slight variations of what we perceive to be tone can down to an individuals hearing (or lack of it) ...... eg. my guitarist has recently changed his hi fi... he bought some new speaker wires at the same time... having read that wires can sound different if used in different directions, we tried them both ways..... guess what ? listening to the same piece of music he was convimced the mids and highs were richer one way I was conviced the bass was richer the other but to each of us there was no noticable variation in what we could hear the other way (so only one way sounded better) ...! So; was there any diference at all OR is our hearing trained to pick up certain nuances within the music because of or differing disciplines???? I am fairly convinced that the frequency of note that we hear is constant on all music, and how we percieve it is different and maybe down to the individual level, so what you percieve to be twangy maybe my warm or vice versa..... Oh, this is going to be a can of worms I suspect...![/quote] +1 One of my favourite Santanta albums is 'Welcome' , one of their early ones released in 1973...I think I first heard it when I was 12 and I've never forgotten it since and still listen to it regularly now. Beautiful guitar playing and a wonderful, wonderful tone!! Santana is one of Prince's early influences and you can really hear it on 'I'll Never Take The Place of Your Man' from the Sign o'The Times Album during the extended solo... You're right about how subjective all this is and maybe the thing that is a 'constant' is the feel or soul of each musician..the notes they use, the rhythms they choose, etc, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='25168' date='Jun 29 2007, 10:50 PM']+1 One of my favourite Santanta albums is 'Welcome' , one of their early ones released in 1973...I think I first heard it when I was 12 and I've never forgotten it since and still listen to it regularly now. Beautiful guitar playing and a wonderful, wonderful tone!! Santana is one of Prince's early influences and you can really hear it on 'I'll Never Take The Place of Your Man' from the Sign o'The Times Album during the extended solo...[/quote] [b]Wow,[/b] early stuff when a he played a Gibson SG and looked like a flower child--- "right on man!" [color="#00BFFF"][font="Arial Black"] "You're right about how subjective all this is and maybe the thing that is a 'constant' is the feel or soul of each musician..the notes they use, the rhythms they choose, etc, etc?" [/font][/color] Oooooooh thats a bit deep.... I've thought about this abit since your first post, and I'm inclined to think now that, any tone that makes you feel good, or feels correct for a particular piece of music, is a good tone.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted July 1, 2007 Author Share Posted July 1, 2007 [quote name='The Burpster' post='25230' date='Jun 30 2007, 10:33 AM']Oooooooh thats a bit deep.... I've thought about this abit since your first post, and I'm inclined to think now that, any tone that makes you feel good, or feels correct for a particular piece of music, is a good tone.....?[/quote] +1 to that Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 On nearly every bass I've ever owned, I sound like me! The only times that I sound different are with my 51 reissue precision and mudbucker '73 Tele Bass. I've never been able to work out if it is that my style makes me sound like me on anything I touch or that as soon as I pick up a bass I automatically try to make it sound like my sound. hell, i couldn't even get a Rick to sound like a Rick - I sounded like me again. Basses that I have owned that other famous users use: Modulus Flea Bass - I sound like me Fender Geddy Lee - me again Rickenbacker 4003 - you guessed it, I sound like me I first discovered this years ago with a guitarist friend who used to have a really cheap guitar and then saved up enough for something good (at the time) it was a Charvel or something - he still sounded the same as well. This may not be a bad thing - at least I'm not trying to sound like anyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 [quote name='Delberthot' post='27685' date='Jul 5 2007, 11:33 PM']On nearly every bass I've ever owned, I sound like me! The only times that I sound different are with my 51 reissue precision and mudbucker '73 Tele Bass. I've never been able to work out if it is that my style makes me sound like me on anything I touch or that as soon as I pick up a bass I automatically try to make it sound like my sound. hell, i couldn't even get a Rick to sound like a Rick - I sounded like me again. Basses that I have owned that other famous users use: Modulus Flea Bass - I sound like me Fender Geddy Lee - me again Rickenbacker 4003 - you guessed it, I sound like me I first discovered this years ago with a guitarist friend who used to have a really cheap guitar and then saved up enough for something good (at the time) it was a Charvel or something - he still sounded the same as well. This may not be a bad thing - at least I'm not trying to sound like anyone else [/quote] I think it's a really good thing to have your own sound! Hopefully, people will say that about the way I play too. But that kind of brings me back to my point in the first place; if we all sound like ourselves, then just how many really useable and distinct bass tones are there? Or is that confusing playing style with the way a bass sounds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 [quote name='Rayman' post='24423' date='Jun 28 2007, 01:59 PM']Almost every bass I've had I've ended up with a simillar sound the the previous ones, purely because I have a sound in my head that I like, and I end up with something simillar whatever I'm playing[/quote] Haha. How true is that? You end up fiddling about until you get the tone you're use to and then carry on as before! I'd maybe add that there's the difference between the "hot" sound of an active bass and the "dry" sound of a passive one. As a child of the 80s (who am I trying to kid?), ok, as a [i]bass playing[/i] child of the 80s, I grew up on actives, so as a result find passive basses a bit, well, lacking. I agree that how you play makes a big big difference too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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