RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Is this better than bass guitar into mixer.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydye Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 generally...yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Thank you Andy . Do you know if you can adjust the controls on the amp, or are they bypassed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) from a bass players point of view: yes from a sound engineers point of view: no as an engineer unless there is a specific reason not too i would always run a di box before the amp using the link out on the di to spilt the signal into the amp the reason for this is even in the event of amp failure i'm still getting signal from the di box and can work on fixing a solution (ussually putting bass into the wedges for a start) and not interupt the bands set also some amps create a serious amount of buzz and hum which sounds terrible and can be easily avoided by using a pre amp di box something like a sansamp is the best compromise between the two as it can be set before the amp but you can still shape your tone with it Edited January 22, 2014 by Chrismanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 My gk amp has a d I out, and I was thinking of getting cable from there into mixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydye Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) to be a bit more verbose in response... going straight into the desk as a line level input will be worse than going via a di box taking a di signal from the back of your amp into a desk will allow you to shape the sound a little and will mean that your amp's preamp is affecting your bass sound a tad. On some/most amps with a di out there's a pre/post switch somwehere which then routes the signal to the di either before the eq section (ie it has no effect on the di signal) or post eq (the eq section affects the di signal). a sound engineers favourite is often (as described above) to connect the bass straight into the di box and then off to the desk and then take a line signal from the di into the amp on stage, totally depends on the venues you're playing though... Edited January 22, 2014 by andydye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1390395435' post='2344843'] from a bass players point of view: yes from a sound engineers point of view: no as an engineer unless there is a specific reason not too i would always run a di box before the amp using the link out on the di to spilt the signal into the amp the reason for this is even in the event of amp failure i'm still getting signal from the di box and can work on fixing a solution (ussually putting bass into the wedges for a start) and not interupt the bands set also some amps create a serious amount of buzz and hum which sounds terrible and can be easily avoided by using a pre amp di box [/quote] i can see your point but for anyone who gets a bit of there sound from there amp say like a distortion or fuzz they gonna sound quiet nasty. for me for recording ive done both but much prefer the di out andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='andydye' timestamp='1390395646' post='2344849'] to be a bit more verbose in response... going straight into the desk as a line level input will be worse than going via a di box taking a di signal from the back of your amp into a desk will allow you to shape the sound a little and will mean that your amp's preamp is affecting your bass sound a tad. On some/most amps with a di out there's a pre/post switch somwehere which then routes the signal to the di either before the eq section (ie it has no effect on the di signal) or post eq (the eq section affects the di signal). a sound engineers favourite is often (as described above) to connect the bass straight into the di box and then off to the desk and then take a line signal from the di into the amp on stage, totally depends on the venues you're playing though... [/quote] see now i have only ever been given one or the other, before they come up to plug the cables and di box in i just plug the mic cable into my di out, andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) [quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1390395732' post='2344850'] i can see your point but for anyone who gets a bit of there sound from there amp say like a distortion or fuzz they gonna sound quiet nasty. for me for recording ive done both but much prefer the di out andy [/quote] I would class that as a good reason not too Edited January 22, 2014 by Chrismanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydye Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think the best representation of your sound against comrpomise with clarity and control for the sound guy might be taking a di signal straight from your bass as well as micing the cab to get the sound of your amp and then using both signals out front, more bass is better! also more faffing on setup so probably not worth it if you're not playing for over an hour in a large venue!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='andydye' timestamp='1390396216' post='2344861'] I think the best representation of your sound against comrpomise with clarity and control for the sound guy might be taking a di signal straight from your bass as well as micing the cab to get the sound of your amp and then using both signals out front, more bass is better! also more faffing on setup so probably not worth it if you're not playing for over an hour in a large venue!? [/quote] yeh thats what all the big guys tend to use but to be honest on a small stage mic'ing up a bass cab causes all kinds of issues as all you end up catching in the mic is all the parts of the stage sound that you use the high pass filter on the desk to eq out of all the other microphones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1390395435' post='2344843'] from a sound engineers point of view: no as an engineer unless there is a specific reason not too i would always run a di box before the amp using the link out on the di to spilt the signal into the amp the reason for this is even in the event of amp failure i'm still getting signal from the di box and can work on fixing a solution (ussually putting bass into the wedges for a start) and not interupt the bands set also some amps create a serious amount of buzz and hum which sounds terrible and can be easily avoided by using a pre amp di box something like a sansamp is the best compromise between the two as it can be set before the amp but you can still shape your tone with it [/quote] This old bit of misinformation once again. No sound engineer would ever even remotely consider DI'ing a guitar amp, or heavens forbid the guitar, so why is it considered acceptable to subject bass players to this? IME guitarist with their multitude of mis-matched pedals connected by all sorts of weird cables and all-valve amps are far more likely to suffer from an equipment failure at some point in the signal chain, but they are always put through the PA with a mic on the speaker. ------------- Interestingly in my days as a guitarist I was using a Hughes & Kettner Tube 50 amp which has a Red Box speaker simulator DI built in. In studio tests I found that you had to use a fairly detailed microphone in a good sounding room before there was a noticeable difference between the DI and mic'd signal. So I decided that I would prefer to use the DI output live since it improved separation and allowed me to get closer to the amp for controlled feedback with no mic or stand in the way. I met a lot of resistance from PA engineers simply on the basis that it wasn't how it was normally done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamtheelvy Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1390397422' post='2344886'] Interestingly in my days as a guitarist... I decided that I would prefer to use the DI output live... [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1390397422' post='2344886'] This old bit of misinformation once again. No sound engineer would ever even remotely consider DI'ing a guitar amp, or heavens forbid the guitar, so why is it considered acceptable to subject bass players to this? [/quote] for the reasons i've stated. i'm not opposed to mic'ing bass cabs at all in fact on bigger gigs they sound great however on small stages the cons far outweigh the pros of them and hence why most engineers don't use them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1390397422' post='2344886'] ... I met a lot of resistance from PA engineers simply on the basis that it wasn't how it was normally done. [/quote] You mean you met humans who didn't want to try something new?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydye Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1390398167' post='2344908'] You mean you met humans who didn't want to try something new?!?!? [/quote] ...just pa knob twiddlers, not humans per sé Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) [quote name='andydye' timestamp='1390398237' post='2344909'] ...just pa knob twiddlers, not humans per sé [/quote] more human than drummers Edited January 22, 2014 by Chrismanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydye Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1390398434' post='2344916'] more human than drummers [/quote] I've met a couple of humanoid drummers, one or two who could even read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 did they read or just look at the pretty pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1390397422' post='2344886'] This old bit of misinformation once again. No sound engineer would ever even remotely consider DI'ing a guitar amp, or heavens forbid the guitar, so why is it considered acceptable to subject bass players to this? IME guitarist with their multitude of mis-matched pedals connected by all sorts of weird cables and all-valve amps are far more likely to suffer from an equipment failure at some point in the signal chain, but they are always put through the PA with a mic on the speaker. ------------- Interestingly in my days as a guitarist I was using a Hughes & Kettner Tube 50 amp which has a Red Box speaker simulator DI built in. In studio tests I found that you had to use a fairly detailed microphone in a good sounding room before there was a noticeable difference between the DI and mic'd signal. So I decided that I would prefer to use the DI output live since it improved separation and allowed me to get closer to the amp for controlled feedback with no mic or stand in the way. I met a lot of resistance from PA engineers simply on the basis that it wasn't how it was normally done. [/quote] i do agree, im trying to sort something atm, gonna star bring my own mic to gigs so the sound man has nothing to do my end just a bit of mixing his to combine his di with the mic on the cab. chrismanbass what stops the guitar mics from picking up the same things as a mic in front of the bass? i realise they are very different beasts but still? andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1390399476' post='2344946'] i do agree, im trying to sort something atm, gonna star bring my own mic to gigs so the sound man has nothing to do my end just a bit of mixing his to combine his di with the mic on the cab. chrismanbass what stops the guitar mics from picking up the same things as a mic in front of the bass? i realise they are very different beasts but still? andy [/quote] different frequency ranges mate the fundamentals of the guitar sound are generally higher and hence you can use a High pass filter to cut out unwanted stage noise without affecting the sound too much whereas on bass if you did that then it would drastically affect the bass tone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftyJ Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1390394917' post='2344831'] Is this better than bass guitar into mixer.? [/quote] Are we talking about recording or live use? On stage, I usually just use my amp's DI-out, and if I can I will also mic my cab because a mic captures the tube drive of my Ampeg preamp in a much nicer way. In the studio, I like to have choice so I generally take both a DI in front of my amp, the DI out of my amp, and a mic too if I can. My bass directly through a DI into the mixing desk provides a nice clean foundation with clear and well-defined lows for low-end push. Then I take the DI out of my amp for 'my' tone. And preferably a mic too because the tube drive of my Ampeg just sounds nicer through some good bass speakers with a mic in front In my experience, most live sound techs are lazy and just want a good DI signal to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) [quote name='LeftyJ' timestamp='1390400880' post='2344983'] In my experience, most live sound techs are lazy and just want a good DI signal to work with. [/quote] depends if they're doing it to make your band sound better. you can have the best bass tone in the world, but if your band sound bad in getting it then no-one will want to listen to you. Edited January 22, 2014 by Chrismanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1390401933' post='2344994'] depends if they're doing it to make your band sound better. you can have the best bass tone in the world, but if your band sound crappy in getting it then noone will want to listen to you. [/quote] sadly i think a lot do it as its just the way they do it. in another thread ive said about my use of fuzz and them not wanting to spend time putting a mic infront of my cab. granted if you sound bad there is work to do before you go live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1390402476' post='2345006'] sadly i think a lot do it as its just the way they do it. in another thread ive said about my use of fuzz and them not wanting to spend time putting a mic infront of my cab. granted if you sound bad there is work to do before you go live. [/quote] nothing to do with the sound of a band dude i've already explained why mic'ing a bass cab on a small stage is a bad idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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