Skol303 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Interesting article in this month's Sound On Sound magazine about 'loudness normalisation' in broadcast media (radio, TV, online), which seems set to make the loudness war a thing of the past. Snippet here: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb14/articles/leader-0214.htm So the days of heavy limiting on the master bus may soon be over? Thank goodness for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I posted a Video outlining levels and definitions regarding broadcast a few weeks ago, worth a look. http://basschat.co.uk/topic/226480-understanding-loudness-meters-video/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Someone had better tell Rick Rubin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Isn't it inevitable? The loudness war was a means to differentiate recordings. When everyone is doing the same thing and compression has been cranked right up to the max, its value as a differentiator wanes, so producers have to look for something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Music going back to dynamics, well there`s a thing to enjoy. At last, for me this is a majorly good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Absolutely. I often thought it was such a waste that when digital/CD technology finally arrived and allowed higher dynamic range and quiet passages without background hiss and scratches, that producers cranked up the compression and destroyed all that dynamic range! Not always of course, but certainly a prevalent trend. Fashions change I guess. Edited February 10, 2014 by flyfisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Oh this is good news, and not just for being rudely woken up in the middle of the afternoon when dozing in front of the Telly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I rather hope that this will lead to somebody re-mastering Joanne Shaw Taylor's last studio album - and no doubt many others, but that's one example that sticks in my mind. It really grates when you have an album of great songs that is hard to appreciate because the guy right at the end of the chain decided to take the "EVERYTHING LOUDER THAN EVERYTHING ELSE" approach on a blues-rock album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapbassSteve Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1391990542' post='2363438'] Someone had better tell Rick Rubin. [/quote] I hope someone does. Stadium Arcadium is one of my favorite albums in recent(erm actually maybe not, it's 8 years old now... scary) years, but the CD/MP3 mastering is awful, just plain awful. There are some really beautiful dynamics on there and it's all lost under a metric tonne of compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Daddy, what did you do in the loudness war ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1392066939' post='2364376'] Daddy, what did you do in the loudness war ? [/quote] This is your father's [i]Dynamics saber [/i]Luke, a more elegant musical tool from a more civilised age.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 The fact that broadcast compression for TV and radio makes over-compressed CDs sound weedy has been known for many years. It's well documented in the book "Perfecting Sound Forever". I'll believe that the loudness wars are over when I start hearing lots of mainstream CDs with plenty of dynamic range in them on a consistent basis. Even if all it does is to bring back mastering for the appropriate medium where the promo copies have less compression on them than the retail versions it will be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1392069499' post='2364421'] This is your father's [i]Dynamics saber [/i]Luke, a more elegant musical tool from a more civilised age.... [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 [quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1392052909' post='2364109'] I hope someone does. Stadium Arcadium is one of my favorite albums in recent(erm actually maybe not, it's 8 years old now... scary) years, but the CD/MP3 mastering is awful, just plain awful. There are some really beautiful dynamics on there and it's all lost under a metric tonne of compression. [/quote] I'm With You and the Foo Fighters' Wasting Light, whilst being great albums in my opinion, were a perfect guide on what not to do with a compressor. He sucked the living soul from both albums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 William Orbit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nhmnf he deplores the loudness war, but the Madonna records he's been involved with have been some of the loudest CDs I've ever heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1392069609' post='2364422'] The fact that broadcast compression for TV and radio makes over-compressed CDs sound weedy has been known for many years. It's well documented in the book "Perfecting Sound Forever". I'll believe that the loudness wars are over when I start hearing lots of mainstream CDs with plenty of dynamic range in them on a consistent basis. Even if all it does is to bring back mastering for the appropriate medium where the promo copies have less compression on them than the retail versions it will be a start. [/quote] +1 Who is the author / publisher of the book referenced ? I recommend a read of "Mastering Audio" author: Bob Katz ; Publisher : Focal Press : ISBN978-0-240-80837-6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 [quote name='bremen' timestamp='1392825430' post='2373164'] William Orbit: [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nhmnf"]http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b00nhmnf[/url] he deplores the loudness war, but the Madonna records he's been involved with have been some of the loudest CDs I've ever heard. [/quote] Yeah - but it doesn't mean he necessarily had the final say in the Mastering which is where the 'Loudness War' takes place. The Master Tapes ( Tapes ? - Okay 24 / 96 Masters:-) can be as full of dynamics together with creative compression as required yet still be deadened at the mastering stage by the OTT demands of a label exec :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Yeah - let's get back to dynamics in music. If you have a CD player with an Output level bargraph ( or use the graph type displays on PC Media Players etc ) then look at a typical CD release from, say, early 90s - the meter levels probaly actually go up and down significantly (If I'm wrong then try another CD - from Memory I'd suggest Echo and the Bunnymen : Crocodiles from 198?). Fast forward to 2000+ and they'l probably just wiggle about in the top 6dB. Makes stuff tiring to listen to and unexciting. Give us back our Dynamics !!! Edited February 19, 2014 by rmorris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 [quote name='rmorris' timestamp='1392840149' post='2373424'] +1 Who is the author / publisher of the book referenced ? I recommend a read of "Mastering Audio" author: Bob Katz ; Publisher : Focal Press : ISBN978-0-240-80837-6 [/quote] +1 Awesome book, the bible for mastering.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 [quote name='rmorris' timestamp='1392840615' post='2373436'] Yeah - let's get back to dynamics in music. If you have a CD player with an Output level bargraph ( or use the graph type displays on PC Media Players etc ) then look at a typical CD release from, say, early 90s - the meter levels probaly actually go up and down significantly (If I'm wrong then try another CD - from Memory I'd suggest Echo and the Bunnymen : Crocodiles from 198?). Fast forward to 2000+ and they'l probably just wiggle about in the top 6dB. Makes stuff tiring to listen to and unexciting. Give us back our Dynamics !!! [/quote] 6dB is pretty good, they can get stuff down to less than 3dB of total dynamic range nowadays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 [quote name='rmorris' timestamp='1392840149' post='2373424'] +1 Who is the author / publisher of the book referenced ? [/quote] [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Perfecting-Sound-Forever-Story-Recorded/dp/1847081401/]Perfecting Sound Forever by Greg Milner[/url]. It's more a history of sound recording technology then a "how to" book, but nevertheless fascinating reading once you get past his over-fondness for analog systems. BTW sorry for the cryptic post at the weekend. The perils of trying to use a new "smart" phone. I shan't be doing that again in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Well it doesn't look like Rubin is stopping any time soon. Just look at how he ruined 13, *and everyone still praised him for it. Edited April 1, 2014 by Spaced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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