thisnameistaken Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Looks like I'll be playing DB in a full amplified band for the first time, so unfortunately I doubt my Ehrlund is going to be especially useful. I'm familiar with piezos having owned a few (still got a Realist and a Bassmax in a drawer somewhere) but I've never gone all out to dampen a bass to prevent feedback and I might have to start doing that. In which case what should I try first? Plugging the f-holes? Dampening the tailpiece? Anything else? I'd like to make this a progressive effort - not doing anything I don't have to do - and I'm wondering what to try in what order if anyone's got any suggestions. I don't really want to go down the magnetic pickup route if I can help it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) My Breedlove has a phase switch on the preamp which really helps, so if yours has a similar button be sure to try it out! A parametric EQ can help to notch out a particularly troublesome frequency also. Edited January 27, 2014 by dannybuoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Whenever I play at rock n roll volumes, I don't dampen or cover anything. Granted, my 2 basses are plys with tops that naturally vibrate less, but all I use is a rev solo pickup (you can add a clicker if you slap) straight into a Genz Benz shuttle head with 1 or 2 12"cabs depending on the stage. If scared of feedback, I add in a Fishman plat pro and bypass the amp's EQ. The plat pro is really useful for very large gigs (i.e. Festivals) so you can keep your amp as stage monitor and xlr the plat pro eq to front of house. That's my solution at the moment, but I'm always looking for improvement so I'm looking forward to what others have to say. Definitely avoid the Ehrlund though, and the realist is not much good either. Bassmax will be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Danny: The Ehrlund pre does have a phase switch but I don't know if that will be enough. I'm imagining a lot of stage volume and the body vibrating a lot from drums/percussion/guitar. Rabbie: Funnily enough my amp is a GB shuttle 6 and my cab is a Schroeder 2x12. I'll try the bass max and see how it goes. I do have a Plat Pro but haven't been using it since I got the Ehrlund, I've kept it though in case I needed to use a bridge-mounted piezo again. It's such a shame because I love the sound of the Ehrlund. I'm not entirely sure it won't cope because I've got away with it in the trio gigs I've been doing (drums and guitar doing european folk stuff), but I am expecting it to just cause a load of feedback in this gig - it's an electric gig really, jazzy hip-hop. To be honest I was wondering if I might get away with using the Ehrlund if I dampened the bass a bit. I don't know if anyone's had any experience of doing that? Edited January 27, 2014 by thisnameistaken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) My bass is a hybrid, but I don't do anything to dampen it. Full Circle p/up has been pretty resistant. and the notch filter and phase knob on my amp seems to be all i need (and we've been loud). Someone on here (thanks, whoever you are ) once suggested finding the bass' preferred feedback frequency by experiment and then pre-setting the notch filter. Haven't had to fiddle with it since. Standing between my cab and the bass helps, as does raising the cab a foot or so (any more and I lose volume). (Edit) no experience, but I cant imagine the ehrlund as anything other than a nightmare for a loud gig. Edited January 27, 2014 by fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Yeah I don't think it will cope very well, but it's surprised me so far. It's not like a mic where if it heard your monitor you'd be totally hosed, but I've found if the top is vibrating like crazy like if the bass is too near an amp or whatever, that causes problems. I've found it's more an issue if a guitar amp is too close rather than my own playing causing feedback. Still, I'd be surprised if I got away with it. And it's a shame because it's so much nicer using the Ehrlund compared to anything else I've ever tried. Thanks for the advice though and I'll give it a try working out what my bass's preferred feedback frequency(s) is|are. Edited January 27, 2014 by thisnameistaken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 A Bassmax through a pre with a phase switch and getting your cab as close to ear height as you can is a combination that works for me. Also, keep the bass signal out of your monitor and ask the sound engineer to cut everything below 80hz going to the rest of the stage monitors. In terms of damping, I've tried a big wedge/ball of foam squidged between the tailpiece and the belly, blocking the f-holes and stuffing a beach ball into the bass side f-hole and blowing it up hard to dampen vibration in the front and back. None of these were a raging success on their own - the beach ball was probably the most effective of the three, but I was always worried about the ball pushing the soundpost out of place. For me, a sensible monitor mix and raising my cab high (and buying a BigE45 MAS45 bass cab so I can hear myself clearly) had the best result. The caveat is that I'm using a ply bass - if you've got a very resonant carved bass, it might be nigh impossible to amplify effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 When I got my Rev Solo II pickup, it came with a short length of plastic tube to weave through the afterlengths and dampen the tailpiece vibrations. This does make a bit of difference when playing loudly, but a rolled up cloth wedged under the tailpiece worked a little better. I haven't used an Ehrlund, but my AKG C411 (which is also a soundboard contact pickup) just about scraped by with a moderately loud drummer though with anything louder I'd go for a bridge wing pickup and live with the less natural sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I had an Ehrlund on my old Kolstein and we play pretty loud (drums, guitar, mandolin, two vox). It coped just fine except in the Hootananny in Brixton (where there are big dub reggae subs under the vibrating wooden stage!). That said I always had a BassMax in the wing slot just in case, as I was not sure I trusted the Ehrlund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1390864602' post='2350803'] That said I always had a BassMax in the wing slot just in case, as I was not sure I trusted the Ehrlund [/quote] I go for this belt 'n braces approach too. I've a Kent Armstrong mag on the end of the fingerboard that I've never had to use, but it takes the stress out of things knowing it's there if I get feedback hell or the piezzo fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Yeah that's the sort of thing I'm thinking of doing. Maybe I can use the bassmax signal for monitoring and the ehrlund FoH, if I'm lucky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexpea Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1390932721' post='2351489'] I go for this belt 'n braces approach too. I've a Kent Armstrong mag on the end of the fingerboard that I've never had to use, but it takes the stress out of things knowing it's there if I get feedback hell or the piezzo fails. [/quote] Yep, I've always got my Kent Armstrong in the bag as a back up. I've used it a few times, in which case I run the Kent Armstrong into my amp for monitoring and the piezo straight to front of house via Plat Pro. No bass in monitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Yeah I was hoping you might read this thread because I remember the sort of things you were doing. So even after all that you had feedback problems? I was hoping you might have found you didn't need some of the damping you were doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfader101 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 old trick... blow a beach ball up in the body through an f hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 I think I'll go for filling the F-holes first then and see where that gets me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Really? Only I've noticed the difference of having stuff like bow quivers and preamps attached to my tailpiece, so I figured damping the strings would have an equally dulling effect, if not more so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blartfactor10 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Hi My bass is a Boosey Hawkes Ply. KnK pickup + clickie. I play in a Roots rock band and a RnR/Billy band both with loud drummers, mostly on small stages/bars. (Standing close to my rig, GK and 4x10 31 band graphic) I have tried most of the above methods and they all have an effect on feedback. The F hole covers (Shaped out of a gardeners kneeling mat) worked best……and then I stumbled on a post in the Upright Bass Players Union Facebook page, this was all about double sound posts. this caused a bit of a stir,with some people for, some against. So I thought I would give it a go. I got some spruce dowel from BandQ cut it to length and fitted it between the bass bar and the Bass F hole. Bingo! no feedback at all. I can stand directly in front of the cab and still own the drummer!! the 31 band EQ helps but is set mostly flat ( I only occasionally have to adjust the sliders) The electric tone of the bass hasn't changed. The trade off is loosing the acoustic tone of the bass but after a while it gets easy to fit/remove the post. It costs next to nothing to try, it may not suit you or your bass but it works for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hopefully I won't need to go that far! I had my first jam with this band tonight and actually it wasn't as loud as I thought it would be, and at rehearsal volume at least I only needed the Ehrlund, but I'm hoping that if I plug the f-holes and use my bassmax for monitoring I should be ok gigging. We'll see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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