NoRhino Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Trying to keep this simple so I can understand the answers. Imagine we have a combo amp with a 15" speaker A passive bass Gain - Bass - Mid - Treble - Volume controls How would you set it to deliver a good standard rock tone? No FX or other parametric trickery on the amp to confuse the issue. Ideas for setting the basics please. Up 'til now the sound used has been pretty bassy which suits onstage but we've noticed that it seems to create issues for the sound engineer at venues with house PA and it doesn't seem to record well on a mid price DVD camera. Really two questions there I suppose but I look forward to your ideas. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Depends entirely on the rig and bass. Assuming you're using the gear listed beneath your avatar, bear in mind that the V Type preamps have a natural mid scoop, in common with all amps that use the Fender tonestack. First thought would be to leave it fairly flat, maybe with a bit more of a mid cut, but then I've never tried that combo. Presumably there's an EQ section on the Zoom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handwired Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 [size=4]Up the gain, up the mids and dig in![/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 depends on the gear - and when it comes to EQ the tone stack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Set gain just below onset of any distortion, set EQ flat, master to taste, vol and tone controls on bass up full and take it from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The venue & the rest of the band's gear make a difference to your sound too. It's a case of play about with your settings at rehearsal (get the band to do the same). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It starts with the bass anyway so anything after that stage may only be a rescue job. Your bass sound should be full but not bassy..IMO.. so learn to play clean. You can always add more bass, very hard to get rid of it in difficult rooms or with P.A's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Pickup configuration is a major tone contributor. Start with everything flat on the amp and try to get the basic tone you want through pickup blend then fine tune with EQ. On stage tone is usually not representative of what people hear out front so be aware of that. Edited January 30, 2014 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 If you can, have a play with setting and each time record it with the band. Hearing yourself back while not playing makes things sound totally different. I stay away from anything that is going to make a mid scoop. As it sucks the body of any bass sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1391079646' post='2352923'] I stay away from anything that is going to make a mid scoop. As it sucks the body of any bass sound. [/quote] Yes. And again I would point out that a tone which sounds good with the band and sits well in the mix may sound pretty awful solo. Edited January 30, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Bear in mind that if it's a tone stack EQ, 'flat' may not mean having all the controls level. I remember on the Hartke LH500 I had (lovely amp too) there was an obvious scoop in the mids with everything pointing to 12 O'Clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Also, looking at your avatar list, don't go near the Zoom until you have your basic tone nailed! Think of it as icing on the cake. . you need a decent cake to make the icing worthwhile. A good starting point is a smiley eq if the amp is at all muddy. TE have presets built in, but only you will know when the tone is just right for you and your band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1391070379' post='2352806'] Set gain just below onset of any distortion, set EQ flat, master to taste, vol and tone controls on bass up full and take it from there. [/quote] This - as a starting pint at least. *point*, Freudian slip there... Edited January 30, 2014 by Adrenochrome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 There is no hard and fast answer as there are too many things dictating the EQ. Quite apart from the bass and rig, you have to consider the acoustics of where you are playing, the stage (is it hollow underneath for example), how close to a wall will the cab be, etc. One place will require a completely different EQ than another. Also, the type of strings used will play a part in the over all tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 [quote name='NoRhino' timestamp='1391039451' post='2352697'] Trying to keep this simple so I can understand the answers.[/quote] Did you get what you expected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 if you haven't got wireless get a long lead and stand as far away from you combo as you can, it can sound totally different 20 feet away, if you want more bass don't turn up the bass conrol it could just get boomy and have no definition, boost the mids at about 400hz if you can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoRhino Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1391087787' post='2353073'] Did you get what you expected? [/quote] I did indeed. Thanks to everyone who commented. I'll use all your advice and see/hear the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Assuming it`s Les Paul/Marshall type rock, and using any rig I don`t know, gain to where it just breaks up, then with roundwound strings - bass 7, mids 3 or 4, treble 7. Generally gets me to where I roughly want to be, and then just tweak as required. Not sure re flats, only just getting used to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Don't get carried away with mids as you'll find most people who talk about them as some sort of holy grail can't play with that sort of sound or indeed even use it themseles...possibly, unknowingly.. Mids ...and that covers quite a frequency... can deal in very harsh sounds that you need to be very clean with. You'll likely hear a lot of stuff you don't want or can't use or is just not player friendly. Most will suggest you use some sort of mid to cut through when really the problem lies elsewhere in the band mix. They may even suggest you do this...and sacrifice your type of sound for the good of the band. Fine idea, until you realise you are the only one in the band doing this. Of course, you may well not get anywhere with a band sound now anyway, so the lesson is to learn who is a team player and who isn't...and who to get rid off. A band is a band is a band... and if you can't talk this situation through and get a good result, time to move on from that band. So, I would say..get your own sound up and work it out with the others. The drums should stay out of your way/layer and so should the gtr... and don't get me started on keys. Every instrument is capable of blowing the mix... so make sure everyone is the band is aware of this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1391080861' post='2352952'] Bear in mind that if it's a tone stack EQ, 'flat' may not mean having all the controls level. I remember on the Hartke LH500 I had (lovely amp too) there was an obvious scoop in the mids with everything pointing to 12 O'Clock. [/quote] This exactly. We're dealing with a Fender tone stack here. A flat response is going to be something like Bass=0 Mid=10 Treble=0. Boosting the mids just isn't going to happen with this amp's tone controls alone. Just to throw another spanner into the mix, they're very interactive and don't really work as you'd expect. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/fender-alembic-bbe-tone-stack-explained-491699/ And I'm pretty far from sure that boosting the mids is really what's needed for a "good rock tone". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Plug a decent mic into your recorder. The stock ones probably have limited capability to capture lower frequency ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) in that situation - 1x15, bass, mid and treble controls - i'd be cutting bass straight away and taking it from there. with a PA, even more so (assuming you're just using the amp as a monitor) YMMV as always. Edited January 30, 2014 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Define a good rock tone. Ok, that sounds trite but only you can know how you want to sound (or your band mates for what sounds right for the band). So have a major play at home with the controls on your bass and the ones on your amp until you get the tone you want, then check that you and your band mates agree. Having got there, listen to that tone until you're sick of it but know exactly how it sounds and what the settings are that got it. So each new venue start by dialing in those settings, if it's right then no probs. Not right? Listen. How is it not right? Too much bass, too thin? whatever. You know what you want so now you play with the settings to get that sound. With practice it will get easier but the starting point is to listen to what you want and what you've got. Have fun Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoRhino Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 More thanks to you for taking time to comment. My original question comes from playing for more years than I care to remember with what I thought was 'my preferred tone' that tended towards bassines. It's often a good exercise to re-evaluate things and realise that perhaps I'm stuck in my ways. I didn't mention the FX pedal in my post because I am looking to find a better setting from the amp & guitar set up first. I know the fx is frippery and should be introduced when all else is in place. I don't normally use my own amp at rehearsal studios but humphed it along last week to try a few things with my band.Then I made the mistake of asking for opinions on the sound they liked. Bad move! Lead guitar said "I like that treble tone" Rhythm guitar said "It's got to be bassy" Drummer and keys offered no opinion. The guys are great people and good players and we've been together as a band for three years. Anyway, next gig is Feb 8 at a great venue with in house PA so I'll let you know how it went (if anyone's interested) and thanks again for the input. Haven't been a BC member for long but am glad I joined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Every band is different. As bass player you should really try to fit into a certain frequency range that either complements or contrasts with the other instruments. Of course, the frequency range available will depend on the type of instruments in your band and subtle things like how the drummer tunes his/her kit, the sound that the guitarist(s) favour(s), whether you have a keyboard player with a wandering left hand, etc. You can only really find your frequency "pocket" by playing together with your band. The "pocket" will also vary from room to room and even little things like changing strings can have an effect! From my point of view (shared by many) I like my bass tone to "fit" with or into the overall band sound. There is no point turning up and insisting that "this is my sound, this is what I have always used" when you sonically disappear into the drum kit and the keyboards or rhythm guitar! If you want to be heard, and want to complement the band - you may have to change your sound quite radically. Usually, what sounds good at home or in solo practice, sounds poor in a band context. Too much bass muddies up the mix, but too little makes the band sound weak (if you are playing on backline only - through a decent PA you will get all your bass end through the FOH speakers anyway). Despite what others have said, mids are your friend here. They can give definition and the [b][i]impression of[/i][/b] volume without actually having to turn up. Bass amps do not handle bass frequencies very efficiently, so unless you have a massive amp and lots of speakers you will not hear much low end anyway. Choose your mid frequencies carefully though, as they can sound harsh, scratchy, shouty or nasal (aren't there some great words for describing sounds! ). Get it right though, and you should be clearly audible and able to add to the overall mix In reality, only trial and error will help you find the frequency pocket that works for you and your band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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