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Tonal issues


pendingrequests
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Board laid out below:
Tuner
EQ
Chorus
Mooer Echo
Clone of Ezekiel 25:17


When the Mooer echo is on the board, there is almost a whurlitzer sound (due to the echo sound itself probably) even when it isn't turned on.

Would a buffer solve this, as well as any other tone problems? I've been looking at this: http://www.reallyawesomepedalboards.co.uk/shop/custom-pedalboard-interface/ as a possible solution.


I am using a Boss power adapter so would that have any influence on this?




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[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1391100655' post='2353284']
sounds like the mooer doesn't like the supply it's being fed.

it's quite a current-hungry pedal at 128mA - which boss psu are you using ?
[/quote]

Using the Boss PSA-230es.

Was thinking about The GigRig Generator, but never got round to buying it. Would that on it's on help solve the problem?

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the boss should be fine.

the mooer claims to be true bypass, so i can only assume it's somehow injecting noise into the power supply.

try connecting the mooer to the daisy chain, but not wiring into the signal chain - is it still wurly ?

Edited by ahpook
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[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1391107756' post='2353407']
also you could try supplying the mooer of the tuner its an isolated supply i think so might help.

andy
[/quote]

sadly, i suspect this will be the eventual solution

Edited by ahpook
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[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1391107756' post='2353407']
also you could try supplying the mooer of the tuner its an isolated supply i think so might help.

andy
[/quote]

Yeh putting the mooer just after the tuner has helped Andy thanks :)

But to improve the the signal to noise ratio, would a buffer be worth it?

And the gig rig?

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[quote name='pendingrequests' timestamp='1391110562' post='2353466']
Yeh putting the mooer just after the tuner has helped Andy thanks :)

But to improve the the signal to noise ratio, would a buffer be worth it?

And the gig rig?
[/quote]

the boss tuner has a buffer in it so i would think that wont be necessary, in fact seeing as you have three boss pedals i wouldnt be worried about a buffer.

are you supplying the mooer from the supply out of the tu-2? or on the same daisy chain as the rest?

andy

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[quote name='pendingrequests' timestamp='1391110562' post='2353466']
Yeh putting the mooer just after the tuner has helped Andy thanks :)
[/quote]

interesting - i'd not have thought it would have made a difference.

nice to be surprised - it shows you've still things to learn :)

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[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1391123019' post='2353667']
I reckon you have clock noise from the Mooer breaking through to the 9V line. You could try wrapping the Mooer's 9v supply cable around a ferrite ring - you can get clip-on ones from Maplin.

Either that or different socks ;)
[/quote]

exactly what i was thinking....although the sock change might work !

Edited by ahpook
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[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1391117323' post='2353580']
the boss tuner has a buffer in it so i would think that wont be necessary, in fact seeing as you have three boss pedals i wouldnt be worried about a buffer.

are you supplying the mooer from the supply out of the tu-2? or on the same daisy chain as the rest?

[/quote]

I tried it there again Andy and I was having the same issue. In fact, after unplugging and re-plugging the pedals back in the same order in the picture, the wurly sound stopped! still a concern though.




[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1391121629' post='2353649']
interesting - i'd not have thought it would have made a difference.

nice to be surprised - it shows you've still things to learn :)
[/quote]

I spoke too soon man, it didn't :)

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[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1391123019' post='2353667']
I reckon you have clock noise from the Mooer breaking through to the 9V line. You could try wrapping the Mooer's 9v supply cable around a ferrite ring - you can get clip-on ones from Maplin.

Either that or different socks ;)
[/quote]

Okay I'll get one and see if that helps, thanks :)

Haha, that didn't work either! ;)

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The [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]PSA-230es is rated at 200ma, if the Mooer is 128ma (I haven't checked), with your other pedals, you're probably approaching 150ma in total?![/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This, in my experience, is where noise and weirdness starts to get introduced as you run out of power to draw from. [/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Think of MA headroom as wattage........you wouldn't run your 200watt amp at 200watts, it's going to start crapping out[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]My rule of thumb is to have half of my supplies rating spare, considering I use a 5amp Gig-rig on one board and a 1amp T-rex on another, I genuinely keep things quiet :)[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Si [/font][/color]

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[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1391165930' post='2353936']
The [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]PSA-230es is rated at 200ma, if the Mooer is 128ma (I haven't checked), with your other pedals, you're probably approaching 150ma in total?![/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This, in my experience, is where noise and weirdness starts to get introduced as you run out of power to draw from. [/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Think of MA headroom as wattage........you wouldn't run your 200watt amp at 200watts, it's going to start crapping out[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]My rule of thumb is to have half of my supplies rating spare, considering I use a 5amp Gig-rig on one board and a 1amp T-rex on another, I genuinely keep things quiet :)[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Si [/font][/color]
[/quote]

totally forgot about this! this will defiantly not be helping, ill also suggest the diago power supplies really quiet and very good value!

andy

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[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1391165930' post='2353936']
The [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]PSA-230es is rated at 200ma, if the Mooer is 128ma (I haven't checked), with your other pedals, you're probably approaching 150ma in total?![/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This, in my experience, is where noise and weirdness starts to get introduced as you run out of power to draw from. [/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Think of MA headroom as wattage........you wouldn't run your 200watt amp at 200watts, it's going to start crapping out[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]My rule of thumb is to have half of my supplies rating spare, considering I use a 5amp Gig-rig on one board and a 1amp T-rex on another, I genuinely keep things quiet :)[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Si [/font][/color]
[/quote]

Yeh Si, just checked and the Mooer draws that amount of power. Hmmm may need to go for the GigRig then. But before I splash out on that, will try with a separate power supply.

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I've had this problem with digital pedals before, they usually feed noise to other pedals via the daisy chain. I've tested plugging a digital pedal into the daisy chain and found it to introduce noise even when it's not plugged into the signal path.

A separate power supply will sort it, as will a fancy supply with multiple isolated outputs, or alternatively a Diago isolation adapter / Gigrig Virtual Battery should do the trick too (but check the max mA rating on those first).

Edited by dannybuoy
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  • 2 weeks later...

Digital pedals are a big noise generator, I get white noise from my polytune mini sometimes.

You need a power supply with more available mA, as others said being able to power so Many pedals seems overkill but more headroom the better.
I would give your bass a serious once over in terms of grounding and shielding. Any noise coming from the source will only get amplified through the pedals.

If you feel the Moore is fualty, try it on its own. Nothing before or after and nothing in its power supply chain either. Process of elimination really.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tonal issues, with effects pedals?? You don't say??? :-)
Congratulations on openin Pandora's box my friend, I feel your pain as I am in the process of trying to sort out my board.
I am sure the oracle will be along shortly, but I will offer my two cents. Firstly, the boss pedals are all buffered, and the buffer circuit is notoriously bad, let alone 3 of them in a row. It's pretty much guaranteed to suck the life out of your tone. Try putting an effects loop box on your board, and run two of the boss pedals through the loop, so they are not in the circuit when not in use. Then use maybe the eq pedal in the middle, and I think the mooer pedals are true bypass? And possible the last pedal on your board, so you should be ok with them left in.
Next make sure you have a power supply big enough to do the job, and preferably one with isolated outputs, this should give you a one stop solution without any noise from one pedal affecting another.
Make sure your patch cables are as short and low
Capacitance as possible (this may be disputed by others). Remember it all adds up.
The buffer in the eq should be ok to do the job, which is to put a electronic buffer in the circuit, otherwise your pickups have to drive through all the cable, putting a buffer in the middle means the buffer will do half the work.
Feel free to shoot me down here guys, but this is where my research has led me, I am just trying to get it all sorted!

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