Genz Benz - Shuttle 9.2 vs Streamliner 900

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1391520512' post='2358021']
What I think has not been mentioned in this thread is that some, me included, find the Streamliner knobbage more demanding, meaning I feel one needs more time with it before being able to dial in the sound one hears in one's head.
[/quote]


Agreed. If that's not what I said, it's what I meant to say ;-)
[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1391360264' post='2356169']
The Streamliner is a really good amp. Playing with the tone controls is fun, because, in true valve style, one affects the other, so it's not quite as intuitive as you might first think, and takes a bit of playing around with.
[/quote]

Edited February 4, 2014 by Roland Rock

[BassTractor]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1391521986' post='2358050']
Agreed. If that's not what I said, it's when I meant to say ;-)
[/quote]

LOL. Yeah, I seem to have overlooked that bit.
Sorry.
Will read better from now on.

But would you agree that the Streamliner is not quite as intuitive as one might first think, and takes a bit of playing around with?

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1391535342' post='2358288']

But would you agree that the Streamliner is not quite as intuitive as one might first think, and takes a bit of playing around with?

[/quote]

No

;-)

Edited February 4, 2014 by Roland Rock

[BassTractor]

[mcnach]

I'm glad I already made my decision, because you two are driving me crazy!

Amp should be here tomorrow... I may take it for a spin in the evening for rehearsal, with a single BF Compact.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1391536944' post='2358315']
you two are driving me crazy!
[/quote]

Ah! If that is indeed the outcome, then our actions have been perfectly ethical, teleologically speaking.

Keep us updated, eh?
I hope to read about your StingRay shoved through Shuttle and Compact, as I'll be using a similar setup.

[GRAHAM SG1]

I have both and rate them highly;

Streamliner 900 - I am sure it is a fair bit more powerful than the shuttle 9.2, it is warmer with a fuller/bigger sound to my ears,with the original OEM tubes in the bass eq is immense and rarely does it need to go above the 9 o clock position for huge bass, way more than is needed for me, it can get a bit woolly at higher gain output with the gain button in and the bass eq higher so I have replaced the tubes with the following -V1 Phillips JAN 5751 and in V2 and V3 a Tung Sol 12AX7,this mod has tamed the bass and gain to a very useable amount and generally smoothed the tone,I can run higher bass eq and gain settings and it stays very smooth yet,the rest of the EQ is excellent,the gain button and 3 position mid switch are powerful tools and define for me what this amp is about, I adore this amp

Shuttle 9.2 - very different to the streamliner,definitely not as warm or huge sounding but it has a very versatile mid parametric set up with a wide range of mid adjustment, it seems to be able to get any tone I can imagine and for me this active eq is what makes this amp,it does get big on the bass but on the last gig I found it starting to peak at not excessive output,the venue does not allow bands to be very loud as they have had complaints,I had the gain and volume about noon,bass 1 o clock and master about noon and it was overdriving and peaking,something the streamliner has not got close to ! ,the 3 functions are good and nicely subtle, this is a very nice amp but the streamliner really rocks my boat

Both amps are very nicely built and the controls have a real quality feel to them,the weight of each is amazing especially the shuttle and both sound amazing through my barefaced cabs .

[mcnach]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1391539404' post='2358363']
Ah! If that is indeed the outcome, then our actions have been perfectly ethical, teleologically speaking.

Keep us updated, eh?
I hope to read about your StingRay shoved through Shuttle and Compact, as I'll be using a similar setup.
[/quote]




Well, tomorrow I have rehearsal with SBK, so I'm thinking of taking the Compact with me and the new toy (which should have arrived by then), so I'll be able to get first impressions tomorrow. Although the real test won't be until I receive my second cab.

You'll hear all about it here!

[mcnach]

[quote name='GRAHAM SG1' timestamp='1391550376' post='2358567']
I have both and rate them highly;

Streamliner 900 - I am sure it is a fair bit more powerful than the shuttle 9.2, it is warmer with a fuller/bigger sound to my ears,with the original OEM tubes in the bass eq is immense and rarely does it need to go above the 9 o clock position for huge bass, way more than is needed for me, it can get a bit woolly at higher gain output with the gain button in and the bass eq higher so I have replaced the tubes with the following -V1 Phillips JAN 5751 and in V2 and V3 a Tung Sol 12AX7,this mod has tamed the bass and gain to a very useable amount and generally smoothed the tone,I can run higher bass eq and gain settings and it stays very smooth yet,the rest of the EQ is excellent,the gain button and 3 position mid switch are powerful tools and define for me what this amp is about, I adore this amp

Shuttle 9.2 - very different to the streamliner,definitely not as warm or huge sounding but it has a very versatile mid parametric set up with a wide range of mid adjustment, it seems to be able to get any tone I can imagine and for me this active eq is what makes this amp,it does get big on the bass but on the last gig I found it starting to peak at not excessive output,the venue does not allow bands to be very loud as they have had complaints,I had the gain and volume about noon,bass 1 o clock and master about noon and it was overdriving and peaking,something the streamliner has not got close to ! ,the 3 functions are good and nicely subtle, this is a very nice amp but the streamliner really rocks my boat

Both amps are very nicely built and the controls have a real quality feel to them,the weight of each is amazing especially the shuttle and both sound amazing through my barefaced cabs .
[/quote]


I'm not terribly worried about output. I never pushed the LMIII all that hard... I expect the Shuttle 9.2 will have a little extra oomph than the LMIII, so it should be fine.
I really want to try a Streamliner now too, as it seems like a real monster (in a good way)... but from all descriptions, I think the Shuttle's voice is more my style. I'm particularly interested in the semiparametric mids... My favourite preamps (John East MMSR and J-Retro) have a semiparametric mids module that I've come to rely on quite heavily. I never use it very drastically, but dialling just a bit of the right frequency band is such a good way to find a nice tone that cuts through enough... I'd love that in an amplifier. The RH450 has not one, but 4 semi-parametric controls, with some great overlap... but you had to press a button to access the mode where you can select frequencies and at the end I never really used it. The Shuttle's is right there, two knobs that I can see immediately where they're set at.

I was going to buy another LMIII (when I talk about my using an LMIII before I actually meant my CMD121P combo... which I have used with various extension cabs, and sometimes even unplugging its internal speaker, using it just for the amplifier section, which is an LMIII)... But I thought that having two of the same was a bit redundant, and I might as well try something else.

Hmmm, the Streamliner sounded really nice on that demo by Ed Friedland... and it looks great (love blue lights, me ). I hope I made the right decision with the Shuttle!

[GRAHAM SG1]

The shuttle is a great amp and very versatile,the mid controls are really flexible,you can get some nice tubey distortion out of it but its a bit excessive from 3 o clock to max, I like the gain and volume between 12 and 2 o clock for a nice smooth distortion, the 3 buttons (lf boost,mid scoop and hf attack) are very good, I wonder what it would be like with a different tube like the Phillips JAN 5751 with a bit less gain,never read about anyone tube swapping on this amp,it really made a big improvement for me on my streamliner

[mcnach]

[quote name='GRAHAM SG1' timestamp='1391606407' post='2359079']
The shuttle is a great amp and very versatile,the mid controls are really flexible,you can get some nice tubey distortion out of it but its a bit excessive from 3 o clock to max, I like the gain and volume between 12 and 2 o clock for a nice smooth distortion, the 3 buttons (lf boost,mid scoop and hf attack) are very good, I wonder what it would be like with a different tube like the Phillips JAN 5751 with a bit less gain,never read about anyone tube swapping on this amp,it really made a big improvement for me on my streamliner
[/quote]


that tube swapping thing is another interesting source of tweaks... back to my guitar playing days, this brings me (can I admit to playing guitar here? )

[mcnach]

IT ARRIVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mcnach]

It looks like an ugly 70s radio panel... I always thought that... but that will only make me look prettier

[GRAHAM SG1]

I was a guitarist for years,I still do play an accoustic,was also a drummer (shhhhhhhhhh!), I was not taken to the looks either but I like it now,it grows on you,enjoy and experience the wealth of tones you can get playing with those two mid knobs,its a very unteractive EQ on the 9.2
Its size and weight amazes me, I normally play the Streamliner as my go to but will swap tonight, you have got me all enthused for the shuttle again

[mcnach]

First test at home... low volume.
Looking good. A lot less warmer than the RH450, but it's capable of low and it's a low I like better. At home I immediately engaged the LF boost preset, but I suspect once it gets loud I may not need it quite so much. I'm getting a bit of the same impression I got with the Markbass LMIII, that I felt it was "ok" at low volume but really liked it once it got louder. The cab doesn't do much top end, so there isn't a lot going on there... and the mids, they are remarkably similar to the mid-sweep module in my John East preamps!
The tube preamp section is nice! It looks like a great way to warm up the sound... and I like the distortion you get when you push it harder, hmm, that's really nice to have. Miles better than the RH450's tubetone (for me, I know some people love the tubetone control, I never did).

One thing: it's really light! I need both hands to plug my cable in!!! The RH450 is heavy enough to stay put, but not the Shuttle. Am I going to need a rope?

Going to rehearsal in a few minutes... we'll see how it does there.

The quick home trial at low volume says the RH450 is more pleasant to the ear more easily... but I do not like something I hear in the low end which I can only describe it as "compression". Now, at higher volumes... we will see.

Oh, and a very nice fellow nearby has offered me to visit with my amp and Compact, and try his Big Baby 2, which I have ordered... that will be interesting!

[GRAHAM SG1]

I use either a Barefaced super 12 or super compact and use some of that spongey mesh anti-slip mat type stuff you can buy in Halfords as a mat to stop the amp moving about,works a treat .
I am sure you will find warmth in the 9.2 as you become more familiar with it, I like to cut the mid frequency (9 o clock) and boost the mid eq (3 o clock),it really gives some punch, I dont like the gain once above the 3 o clock setting,it becomes too rough as the other amps I have had (except my Ampeg PF500 which lacks distorted tone in comparision) . I only really like a tiny bit of distortion to slightly colour the tone,too much and it sounds farty to my ears !

Edited February 6, 2014 by GRAHAM SG1

[mcnach]

you mean something like this?
[url="http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_204215_langId_-1_categoryId_165732"]http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_204215_langId_-1_categoryId_165732[/url]

I used the Shuttle with a Compact cab last night... and now I *know* we're going to be good friends.
It does not lack warmth at all.
I started with the LF engaged, but as time went by and I kept doing small adjustments, I ended up switching it off. It adds a nice low end "something", but I did not needed in the room we were in. I can imagine it'll come handy in some gigs, but with the Stingray and a Compact on the floor, the LF off, and the bass control on the amp at about 1 o'clock, it sounded very big.
The mid-range control I have to figure it out still... it seems very similar to the midsweep on my Stingray, and there's no point setting both at the same point... I don't remember where I ended up setting it to.
The tube preamp section, 'though... not a huge fan after last night. Well, actually, let me rephrase that: yes, I like it, but just for a mild touch. I found that turning it up high it was getting a little muddy. It produced a thunderous thump from my bass, no doubt, it "felt" beautiful... but I want more definition. I think by the end of the session I had the gain at about 9 o'clock only.

I will need to play more with this, so over the next few rehearsals I hope I'll fine tune it and get it better. But last night was very promising. There was top end missing for my taste, but this cab is not reknowned for the top end exactly. I can't wait to get my Big Baby 2 to pair them to the Shuttle.
On Sunday I'm actually getting to try this very setup with someone else's BB2! exciting!!!

[GRAHAM SG1]

Thats the stuff,its good
I find that playing about with the two mid controls has a big effect on the gain, volume and bass controls, I like the mid frequency control at around 9 o clock and the mid eq around 3 o clock with the bass eq rolled back to between 10 and 11 o clock,this reduces the possibility of muddiness and overdriving while still giving great lows,I found that cutting the gain and increasing the voulme cleans the tone up nicely, this is the main difference between the 9.2 and the streamliner,the 9.2 is very interactive between the controls whereas I find the streamliner easier to settle for what I like,both great amps

[Musicman20]

The top end will open up massively with a new cab. Genz amps tend to be quite bright and modern up top.

It will sizzle with a Ray if you want it to

[fretmeister]

I couldn't decide either so I bought both.

Very happy!

[mcnach]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1391723888' post='2360721']
I couldn't decide either so I bought both.

Very happy!
[/quote]

ha ha, it was very tempting! but I like the one I went for, phew!

[mcnach]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1391702481' post='2360415']
The top end will open up massively with a new cab. Genz amps tend to be quite bright and modern up top.

It will sizzle with a Ray if you want it to
[/quote]

I don't normally go for that, but sometimes it's good to have the option. Can't wait to get my new rig together (two more months or so?)

[mcnach]

[quote name='GRAHAM SG1' timestamp='1391691321' post='2360191']
Thats the stuff,its good
I find that playing about with the two mid controls has a big effect on the gain, volume and bass controls, I like the mid frequency control at around 9 o clock and the mid eq around 3 o clock with the bass eq rolled back to between 10 and 11 o clock,this reduces the possibility of muddiness and overdriving while still giving great lows,I found that cutting the gain and increasing the voulme cleans the tone up nicely, this is the main difference between the 9.2 and the streamliner,the 9.2 is very interactive between the controls whereas I find the streamliner easier to settle for what I like,both great amps
[/quote]

Funny you say that, I looked at the settings I was using at the end of the night last night and my mid frequency knob was a bit higher than yours (about 10 o'clock), and the mids knob was a bit lower than yours, at around 2 o'clock... so different, but not miles away from what you were talking about!
I was also boosting highs a fair amount and had the "HF Attack" switch engaged... but that's probably because the cab I used is a bit on the dark side. That's bound to change a lot when I use a combination that can reproduce the top end better.

I sold my RH450 today, it's all packed up, ready to be posted in the morning... I'm a little sad, I loved that amp, despite its "quirks". But I'm happy with my new amp
With my RH450, the amp bag went too, so now I need one for the Shuttle.

Any recommendations? It's so small that I'm thinking a good laptop case would probably work well... but I bet there are better options out there. Those knobs protrude significantly, the amp needs a decent case that protects them.

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1391736400' post='2360874']


Funny you say that, I looked at the settings I was using at the end of the night last night and my mid frequency knob was a bit higher than yours (about 10 o'clock), and the mids knob was a bit lower than yours, at around 2 o'clock... so different, but not miles away from what you were talking about!
I was also boosting highs a fair amount and had the "HF Attack" switch engaged... but that's probably because the cab I used is a bit on the dark side. That's bound to change a lot when I use a combination that can reproduce the top end better.

I sold my RH450 today, it's all packed up, ready to be posted in the morning... I'm a little sad, I loved that amp, despite its "quirks". But I'm happy with my new amp
With my RH450, the amp bag went too, so now I need one for the Shuttle.

Any recommendations? It's so small that I'm thinking a good laptop case would probably work well... but I bet there are better options out there. Those knobs protrude significantly, the amp needs a decent case that protects them.
[/quote]

http://www.ipswichpa.co.uk/gator-g-mix-b-1212-mixer-carry-case-bag-12-x-1175-1049-p.asp

This one is the perfect size, and offers more protection than the thin Genz case (I've had both)
The Protec small mixer bag 1212 is best in terms of protection, but chunkier, and difficult to find now (possibly discontinued?)

[GRAHAM SG1]

[quote]I sold my RH450 today, it's all packed up, ready to be posted in the morning... I'm a little sad, I loved that amp, despite its "quirks". But I'm happy with my new amp [/quote]

Welcome to the world of increased headroom, I always found that 500 watts or lower is not enough in all situations I play in, my PF500,TC BH500 and GKMB210 with MB115 were almost flat out playing some pubs,cant beat more watts to just cruise through a gig instead of thrashing the amp, a bit like car engine sizes