Buffer-lows

[olliedf89]

I'm having a few headaches and lows lately trying to decide if I need a buffer or not. The situation I'm in is one many people have been before, I'm sure, and it's that I play active basses and like using effects a lot. When it comes down to it, I don't really need or use all of them all the time, but the ones I do use regularly, ie, Fuzz, don't sit too happily with active basses... or at least high output pickups, like I have.

I thought I'd settled the issue when I sold my past fuzzes and bought a Zvex Mastotron, which is great. Does exactly what it says on the tin, only I'm not sure I really want what it says on the tin anymore.

Basically I want to be able to feel confident buying effects and using them as well as sodding about with the signal chain without having to worry about how the signal is going to effect certain pedals.

I was recommended a buffer a little while ago, now I know that buffers are generally used to help boost a signal before a long cable or in conjunction with a load of true bypass pedals, but I know many people also seem to use them to help lower impedance and quieten a hot signal down in order to make the signal more 'effect friendly'.
All I've seen so far is the Empress Buffer+ which looks great for what I need, but I want to make sure before I fork out the money and loose more real estate and another power cable outlet on my pedalboard.

My signal chain is
Active bass > TC Polytune > Aguilar Tone Hammer > MXR Bass Compressor > EHX POG II > MXR M80 > Zvez Mastotron > MXR Carbon Copy > Hardwire TR-7 > TC Vortex > Boss PS-3 > Hardwire DL-8 > GK 700rb/210rbh
There are always more that chop in and out, (EHX Ring Thing, EHX Clone Theory, Boss RC-2) but these are the mainstays.


Essentially what I'm asking of you lovely low-enders is... am I barking up the right tree, is this what I need? Or am I still a banana short of a fruit bowl?

Thanks!

[dannybuoy]

I think you are barking up the wrong tree I'm afraid!

Magnetic pickups have a high output impedance, and many vintage style fuzzes are designed to work well directly connected them. A buffer converts this to a low impedance output, which is better for driving long cables without signal loss, but doesn't play well with some fuzzes. The preamp in an active bass is essentially a buffer, so adding another one is not going help things.

What you need is a pickup simulator. There's not many off the shelf solutions to this that I know of, although I have seen some pedals (Seymour Duncan?) with a 'drag' control. Here is a circuit that does what you need:

http://www.muzique.com/lab/pickups.htm

I think BC member (Toasted?) made a few of these up a while back for people.

If anyone knows of a little mini pedal to do this job, I would be interested too! Actives don't play too well with my Team Awesome Fuzz Machine.

Edited February 2, 2014 by dannybuoy

[Sibob]

Fuzz Face based circuits hate active basses and buffers as they have a similar effect on impedance.
So no, you don't want a Buffer .......you want a passive bass lol

Si

[Musky]

I thought the Mastotron had a variable impedance buffer built in to the input anyway?

So like the others say, if you need to use a fuzz that's sensitive to the input impedance don't use it after another buffered pedal.

[olliedf89]

It seems I am losing the plot, hah! I feared someone would tell me to get a passive bass, it's on the list but wont be anytime soon and wont be my main bass really.

The Mastotron does have a variable impedance buffer (the reason I got it) but it's not a 'gated fuzz' sound, it's very square wave and synth, which is great, but really doesn't do it for me now when I just want a nice stonery fuzz tone.

So... excuse me for still being silly... people have mentioned that its possible to get a buffer which would do the same thing as the impedance buffer on the mastotron... is that just something I have imagined?

Or would it be better to just settle for something like the EHX Bass muff Deluxe with the active/passive button... or maybe the Dwarfcraft Eau Claire Thunder with the trim knob....? Not that fuzz is the only active issue I have, but it is the main one.

[dannybuoy]

I would get anther fuzz that plays well with actives. E.g Iron Ether Oxide, Darkglass Duality, or anything based on a Big Muff. The latter would work well for stoner sounds, I quite like the look of the new Swollen Pickle that has the internal controls on the outside. Or the EHX Big Bass Muff Deluxe or Wren & Cuff Tall Font Russian come highly recommended too.

BTW, the active/passive switch on the Big Bass Muff Deluxe is just a pad to lower your input signal in case have a really hot signal from the active bass which overloads the pedal. You probably won't need it unless you use massive amounts of boost on your EQ, the standard Bass Big Muff doesn't have this switch yet works just fine with actives that I've used.

Edited February 2, 2014 by dannybuoy

[Sibob]

The simple fact is that it's a lot harder finding a fuzz to play nice with actives. My advice would be to try a load and pick the one you like (that 'never-ending' fuzz quest).
You'll have a much better time with Muff based circuits than Fuzzface based circuits

Si

[ahpook]

one thing i've had some success with for impedanece matching around fuzzes is an EHX LPB-1. its output impedance is ~10k, about that of a pickup.

the downside is that it's not an uncoloured pedal (slight bass cut and mid-boost) and it does invert the polarity of the signal, which can cause problems in effects loops.

put the LPB-1 in before the fuzz and engage them together - you may find it tames the tizz a bit.

[olliedf89]

Oh no, I've accidentally created another never ending fuzz quest thread!

I have had a Bass Big Muff and it worked okay in 'dry' mode but otherwise it was very fussy, and it's what started this whole quest in the first place about a year ago! The Swollen Pickle did me no good either, sadly.

Thanks for all the advice. Ill look into your suggestions. I've just got the EHX, Cog Grand Tarkin and Eau Claire Thunder on my list atm, unsurprisingly they aren't that common to try out, ehx aside.

I'd like to be able to try pedals out more often but living in a small town (albeit half hr from Brighton) it's not that easy to nip to the local store and check various different poodles out. I'll make more effort!


Incidentally, is there a post here, or anywhere, that lists the fuzzes that definitely do / definitely don't work with actives? If it doesn't exist... is that something that could be started?

[Sibob]

I just had a real quick google and the results were essentially "Muff-based circuits" (basschat doesn't have enough server space to list all the Muff derivatives ), and the Mastotron.

Have a word with Tom @ COG, he made a Fuzz for Shep which had a variable Impedance control, it was probably Tarkin (Muff) based, but dunno for sure

Si

[olliedf89]

Wicked, cheers Si. This website is a life saver! Hah!

Plenty to think about! For me[i] and[/i] my bank manager!

[dannybuoy]

A standard Tarkin is not going to be that different from the other muff fuzzes I guess. Not sure about the Dwarfcraft stuff, but considering the builder plays passive basses and is more of the mad scientist than sensible engineer type, I would hazard a guess they were not designed with actives in mind!

[Sibob]

I haven't owned an active bass in years and years, so can't help with comparisons.
Ben @ Dwarfcraft certainly is a passive player, whether that means his circuits are catered towards those users I don't know, ask him on Twitter
Again, Tom @ COG would be able to cater a Tarkin to whatever you want.

Si

[keeponehandloose]

if its a drag control, as suggested higher up,
take a look at the Radial Dragster, tiny box with a variable control.

[TG Flatline]

The Push/Relax on the Mastotron helps when using active basses, but as has been mentioned above for most Fuzz Face-based circuits (Mammoth, Mastotron, Sun Face, Fulltone '69, MXR 108 etc) there really is no substitute for Passive Bass>Cable>Fuzz. You might get on fine with an active, and many many get on fine with the Mastotron and active basses. Shep's Meat Grinder fuzz is based on the Mastotron.

The AMZ pickup simulator mentioned above can help, and is very simple to put together with even limited skills and tools.

If you use actives then, in my opinion, you're better off with a Big Muff-based circuit. My standard Tarkin has been mentioned above by dannybuoy and his assessment is pretty spot on, the W&C TFR is much loved on here by active and passive users, as is the Fuzzrocious Stache - all three are Big Muff-based, with the first two picking out the Green Russian as their base. Si's assessment is also correct and I will happily cater a Tarkin to individual tastes

Hope that helps, unfortunately there isn't really a way round the active bass/fuzz face dilemma that doesn't compromise either the fuzz or your tone when the fuzz is bypassed. Matt Bellamy has Manson guitars put a Fuzz Factory (also Fuzz Face-based) directly in some of his guitars so he can still use his wireless but get the best out of his fuzz too. That's not exactly the cheapest solution though, granted!

[olliedf89]

The only reason I mention dwarfcraft is I think I saw Ben mention something to do with a trim knob on the big thunda during an interview with Juan Alderete but I might have made that up.
I must confess the W&C TFR is one of my favourite sounding fuzzes so it's pleasing to know that it works with active. Though a Tarkin is tempting too. I'll have to do a bit more research after work tonight!

Hah, I think Matt bellamy may have a slightly bigger budget than me!

Thanks again for your input everyone.

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='TG Flatline' timestamp='1391422775' post='2356847']Matt Bellamy has Manson guitars put a Fuzz Factory (also Fuzz Face-based) directly in some of his guitars so he can still use his wireless but get the best out of his fuzz too. That's not exactly the cheapest solution though, granted![/quote]

I never knew that was the reason but now it all makes sense!

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='olliedf89' timestamp='1391370881' post='2356425']
Incidentally, is there a post here, or anywhere, that lists the fuzzes that definitely do / definitely don't work with actives? If it doesn't exist... is that something that could be started?
[/quote]

Problem is---especially with fuzz---that nearly everyone has a different view on what "works" and what doesn't, especially because it also depends to an extent on exactly what preamp is in your bass, your settings, what you're trying to do, etc.

[Sibob]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1391618207' post='2359309']
Problem is---especially with fuzz---that nearly everyone has a different view on what "works" and what doesn't, especially because it also depends to an extent on exactly what preamp is in your bass, your settings, what you're trying to do, etc.
[/quote]

Too true, hence me suggesting that you try as many as possible.....its fun.....trust me

Si

[olliedf89]

Very fair point, it's all subjective.
I'll just have to try 'em all! I'm gonna start with the Wren & Cuff Tall Front Russian because it's the one I really want to work the most!
Guess I'll just have to keep buying and selling them until I find the right one for me.

Thanks for the help again guys!