Greggo Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 This is going to make me sound like such an idiot, but having looked into getting my neck being a bit smoother and to smooth of some scratches i was given some fine sand paper - at least I thought it was and it seems to be a bit coarser than required because it's scratched neck somewhat. If I get the correct grit paper can I correct my idiocy?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizontalste Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 What grit did you use? If you work down to 1000 that should sort it if it's not too deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 [quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1391380110' post='2356608'] What grit did you use? If you work down to 1000 that should sort it if it's not too deep. [/quote] I'm not sure what it was but the guy in shop said was finest so stupidly I took it to try. It's not to deep luckily, and isn't massively noticeable in feel but it just looks a bit naff, but I want to try to get it like a satin finish so would like to do it properly. Will 1000 help it get to this type of finish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The sanding sheet you got should have some numbers on it: 40-60-80-120-180-240 etc. You will need to go to a lower number than the sheet that caused the damage to get the scratches out. Work through the different grades to a high number as the higher the number the finer the grit ( and the harder to remove scratches ) but equally the more you remove the less of your neck is left, so its a balancing act! Don't use the sheet with your finger, get a small wooden block, wrap or stick some of the sanding sheet on it and gently sand off the scratches but don't just sand in one place or you'll cause a flat spot. Using fine steel wool will give you a satin finish but with any abrasive media, the more you sand, the more you take off the original neck finish....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1391383531' post='2356651'] The sanding sheet you got should have some numbers on it: 40-60-80-120-180-240 etc. You will need to go to a lower number than the sheet that caused the damage to get the scratches out. Work through the different grades to a high number as the higher the number the finer the grit ( and the harder to remove scratches ) but equally the more you remove the less of your neck is left, so its a balancing act! Don't use the sheet with your finger, get a small wooden block, wrap or stick some of the sanding sheet on it and gently sand off the scratches but don't just sand in one place or you'll cause a flat spot. Using fine steel wool will give you a satin finish but with any abrasive media, the more you sand, the more you take off the original neck finish....! [/quote] Thanks for info - the sanding sheet had 120 on it. Just checked on it again and I don't think it's as bad as what I first thought - I think it looked worse after sanding so I immediately stopped, but I wiped it down and can't really notice the scratches, but if I run hands up and down neck I can feel them ever so slightly. I've read somewhere that Scotch brite pads are good for satining a neck is this a good way of doing it? If so which colour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 40 grit = very course. 1000 grit = very fine You can buy sheets of different grades of grit on ebay. Have a search on youtube as well. there's lots of videos showing you how to do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 [quote name='Greggo' timestamp='1391385270' post='2356671'] Thanks for info - the sanding sheet had 120 on it. Just checked on it again and I don't think it's as bad as what I first thought - I think it looked worse after sanding so I immediately stopped, but I wiped it down and can't really notice the scratches, but if I run hands up and down neck I can feel them ever so slightly. I've read somewhere that Scotch brite pads are good for satining a neck is this a good way of doing it? If so which colour? [/quote] 120 is not fine. That guy was obviously taking the piss. You want to try and work your way up to at least 500 from there.... more if you planning on spraying it after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) I don't know how bad your neck is looking right now, or if it's a lacquered finish, but by rushing in to doing something you could make the problem a whole lot worse. If it's lacquered, I'd suggest you take a look around locally and find a specialist in wood finishing. They might call themselves French polishing specialists. Take it there and ask them what to do with it. FINE wire wool is a possible solution, but the stuff in the DIYstores is not fine enough. Good luck Edited February 3, 2014 by Grangur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamfist Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) If the scratches are caused by 120 grade paper. You now need to buy some thing like some 180, 240, 400 and 600 grade paper. Take out the scratches of your 120 with the 180, then use the 240 etc, finishing up with the 600. It really is very doable. Also, I would advise wetting the wood and allowing to dry between each sanding. This brings up the grain each time and you will end up with a smoother finish. Edited February 3, 2014 by hamfist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 [quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1391410978' post='2356713'] If the scratches are caused by 120 grade paper. You now need to buy some thing like some 180, 240, 400 and 600 grade paper. Take out the scratches of your 120 with the 180, then use the 240 etc, finishing up with the 600. It really is very doable. Also, I would advise wetting the wood and allowing to dry between each sanding. This brings up the grain each time and you will end up with a smoother finish. [/quote] Sorry my friend, but I don't think you're talking high-enough numbers. I wouldn't sand any more with less than 350. The last thing you want now is adding more scratches. I finish a neck with 1000 grain or very fine wire wool, because on the neck you want it really smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I agree with Hamfist. If you try and sand out scratches caused by 120 paper with 350+ you'll be at it for days, only eventually having to sand to a depth you'd get to with coarser stuff anyway. Sanding works best going gradually up through the grades. Even 120 doesn't take off enough to noticeably alter the neck depth in a single pass, main worry would be repeated passes on a single spot so follow advice above and keep pressure light and even across the full surface. As to final sanding grade, I've found that to be material-dependent but typically 1500 or even 2000 for decent gloss, ideally followed by a rubbing compound. 600 should take you to a smooth matt. Don't worry, this is an easy fix! PS 120 IS considered fine in most non-specialist/non-finish applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 Thanks all for the info. I didnt do a major amount of "damage" with the 120, I rubbed it up and down neck and noticed it was scratching as opposed to smoothing, so I stopped immediately. Having wiped off the 'dust' I cant really feel the scratches but can see it lightly in the places where it abrased (I suppose its no worse than the general marks on the back of the neck that were done by previous owner just through wear and tear). Think I originally panicked a bit! If I was to jump to a higher grit, say 600 as noted above for a smooth matte finish, would this smooth off the neck still in spite of the light scratches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1967 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I think Grangur has made the key point here. Is it lacquered or is it a natural finish? the principle of working through the grades is spot on, but it will be very different grades for each scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza 2905 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 [quote name='Greggo' timestamp='1391420847' post='2356812'] Thanks all for the info. I didnt do a major amount of "damage" with the 120, I rubbed it up and down neck and noticed it was scratching as opposed to smoothing, so I stopped immediately. Having wiped off the 'dust' I cant really feel the scratches but can see it lightly in the places where it abrased (I suppose its no worse than the general marks on the back of the neck that were done by previous owner just through wear and tear). Think I originally panicked a bit! If I was to jump to a higher grit, say 600 as noted above for a smooth matte finish, would this smooth off the neck still in spite of the light scratches? [/quote] Glad to hear that the damage is probably not as bad as your originally thought. I think if you rub it lightly with 600 grade, then 800 through 1000 to 1200, and then finally 0000 grade steel wool, you should get a nice finish eventually. Remember to take your time, and rub lightly, don't be in a hurry and try to fix it too quickly. A little bit of patience now will pay dividends. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) Agreed with much of the above, unless it's a lacquered finish neck and all this sanding removes the lacquer and you're down to the wood. Sorry guys, but without that info this thread is all hot air. You can finish with as fine a finish as you want, but if the head and tail are lacquered and the centre is un-finished bare wood, the wood will absorb sweat and get rather grey in colour. Edited February 3, 2014 by Grangur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) In daylight managed a good look and to be honest it's not the actual wood that's scratched after all its just the finish is abrased where the grit paper was too coarse. In fact I think the neck actually feels better than before, so thinking finishing up with a higher grade should make it lovely to play and less sticky than it originally was. Edited February 3, 2014 by Greggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 So you're saying it's lacquer. With some lacquer it's possible to remove the scratches in the finish by rubbing with thinners. It softens the lacquer and the scratches are covered over. I can't be sure this will work with your neck. But it might be worth a try. There's a guy I used to work with who did it a few times. I'm sure others here will know more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 There's a big difference between a thin nitro-type lacquer and a typical polyester/polyurethane job that you get on most modern basses. The former dries slowly and progressively shrinks to an extremely thin finish. The latter is catalysed, extremely hard and usually has substantial thickness. If we're talking about the Yamaha BB414 in the OP's profile picture, then I'd imagine that's poly of some description and would be massively surprised if working up the grades to 600 took you back to the wood. Just go gently with wet finishing paper, applying only very slight pressure (let the paper do the work), stop to check regularly, and it'll work out. Jumping straight to 600 will just mean it takes you longer to fully remove the scratches. Arguably, doing it that way means you get less even a sand so actually increase your chance of cutting through. Halfords sell suitable finish paper by the way - not the greatest longevity but good enough for this task IME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 The baas is indeed the Yamaha BB414. I probably haven't been that clear but prior to using wrong grit, the end goal was to satin the neck to reduce stickiness, but since don't believe as much corrective action is needed as I hadn't actually scored the wood (luckily). If getting rid of existing neck marks means going through wood I'd be happy to not go that far but make best of neck as it is, but just fine sand it to achieve the satin if that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamfist Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1391413838' post='2356727'] Sorry my friend, but I don't think you're talking high-enough numbers. I wouldn't sand any more with less than 350. The last thing you want now is adding more scratches. I finish a neck with 1000 grain or very fine wire wool, because on the neck you want it really smooth. [/quote] We'll just have to disagree on that one. I have found it impossible to get scratches out from something sanded with 80 or 120 grade paper with something like a 400 grade. To get scratches out you need to remove wood or poly or whatever the finish is. You can't magic scratches away. It'll just take much, much longer to do it if you don't through the grades but jump straight to a finer grade. But yes I do agree with finishing with 1000 grade or similar. I go to at least 1000 on all my stuff. However, I'm sure finishing with 600 would probably be fine for many, especially on a neck, where many prefer more of a satin finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 This might help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxGz6IZ9BFI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Scotchbrite is the ideal stuff for knocking the gloss finish back to satin. I read that Alembic use 2000 grit wet and dry.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 [quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1391465128' post='2357567'] This might help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxGz6IZ9BFI [/quote] This is the video that inspired me to try but find it hard to get Scotch brite on shops. May just try online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 [quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1391465128' post='2357567'] This might help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxGz6IZ9BFI [/quote] This is the video that inspired me to try but find it hard to get Scotch brite on shops. May just try online or use a high grit paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 [quote name='Greggo' timestamp='1391505309' post='2357778'] This is the video that inspired me to try but find it hard to get Scotch brite on shops. May just try online or use a high grit paper [/quote] You can get it at Homebase, in the decorating section with the sandpaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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