Great bassists who have had a negative effect on modern bass?

[Oscar South]

Heres a few from me:

Fieldy - really original, great player, really good bassist, great tone in the context and style he uses it. However hes largely responsible for the ongoing 'mid scoop' trend, he makes it work but when you take a bunch of kids who have no idea of how to get a good tone out of any rig playing detuned or 5 string basses with oversized amps and completely cut mids, its often not pleasant.

Les Claypool - amazing bassist, one of my all time favourates. On the other hand I absolutely cannot stand the millions of Claypool clone bassists who try to transplant their half arsed take on his style into whatever band they play with, regardless of genre.

Vic Wooten - incredible bassist, great teacher and all round excellent musician. Unfortunately he has also introduced one of the most unmusical styles of playing to the impressionable masses. He can pull his double thumbing off well enough, but its otherwise an almost worthless technique and I'm fed up of seeing young bassists try to usually unsuccessfully work it into their bands, it wouldn't be so bad apart from the inevitably sloppy technique that 99% of 'thumpers' seem to have.

Anyone got any?

Edited July 5, 2008 by Oscar South

[Chris2112]

I agree with the Claypool and Wooten things. Wooten especially is an amazing bassist and a man I respect as a musician and a human being. He has his own musical identity and as far s integrity goes, I think he is top notch. He plays the way he plays and makes the music he wants to make. However, he understands that music comes before technique, which is why melody is woven through everything he does. If one does not have the melodic sophistication and sensibility of Vic, using the DT technique often produces dire results. I think part of it is also that Vic is the best around at the double thumbing thing. He has such control of it whereas a lot of his imitators don't. I think he is the new Jaco in the way that he is wildly unique and made a huge buzz and a new way of playing, but he will always be the master of it.

Mark King is another one. Fantastic player, and I love his music. He has left us with a legacy of middle aged men playing Jaydee and Status basses (as well as the odd Alembic!), playing his trademark licks and lines, often with marvellous accuracy and attention to detail (and it's certainly a more pleasant listen than someone ripping off Flea or Claypool). However, they never seem to take what they have learned from Mark and put their own spin on things. There is nothing wrong with playing other people's tunes, but at least in England, for better or worse, Mark King is still remembered. In fact, not since the days of Entwistle, Bruce and McCartney has a British bassist made such a splash! I love Mark but I'm always wary of overplaying the machinegun 16th slap lines!

[Soulfinger]

Chris Wolstenholme. He does a great job with Muse - he has a very original style, his sound and lines are an essential part of the band, he has taste and uses his effects to great, erm, effect.

On the down side, everyone and their mother now have a Big Muff or some other device that turns their bass into a fart generator and litter Youtube with pathetic renditions of Hysteria. Fuzz used to be a really cool effect but nowadays it´s done to death...

[Rodders]

Flea. I liked him to begin with he's a very good player he claims in his video that he has no knowledge of theory whatsoever
and yet he knows the major and minor scales and the octave interval which he clearly shows in his exercises

[onehappybunny]

Jaco Pastorius... :ph34r: ducks, and runs for cover :ph34r: ... obviously very, very talented but helped encourage the bunch of followers who seem more interested in technique-for-technique-sake

[budget bassist]

[quote name='Soulfinger' post='233193' date='Jul 5 2008, 03:51 PM']Chris Wolstenholme. He does a great job with Muse - he has a very original style, his sound and lines are an essential part of the band, he has taste and uses his effects to great, erm, effect.

On the down side, everyone and their mother now have a Big Muff or some other device that turns their bass into a fart generator and litter Youtube with pathetic renditions of Hysteria. Fuzz used to be a really cool effect but nowadays it´s done to death...[/quote]
Yeah i used overdrive/fuzz loads when i was just starting, now i realise it sounds like crap and i've not used my overdrive pedal or wah for ages.

Also i think rob trujillo has had a negative effect on metallica, i think he influenced them towards the nu metal sort of side of things, though that could have been the fact that st anger was rushed due to his alcohol problem and numerous other things, we'll see how death magnetic turns out, not good though probably.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Soulfinger' post='233193' date='Jul 5 2008, 03:51 PM']Chris Wolstenholme. He does a great job with Muse - he has a very original style, his sound and lines are an essential part of the band, he has taste and uses his effects to great, erm, effect.

On the down side, everyone and their mother now have a Big Muff or some other device that turns their bass into a fart generator and litter Youtube with pathetic renditions of Hysteria. Fuzz used to be a really cool effect but nowadays it´s done to death...[/quote]


I really like him but i don't like Muse and I did learn how to play Hysteria yesterday I have no effects but it does sound awesome on my practice amp.

However i will not be uploading a video of me playing it on Youtube

[ped]

I agree with everyone so far, good examples. Of course for every great inspiration there are a certain percentage of people who use it wisely, and unfortunately with things like Youtube the good, the bad and the ugly are there for all to see.

Billy Sheehan(sp?) for me - not a fan personally, although I haven't listened to a lot of his work, but I think 'shredding' on a bass is tantamount to murder!

...There are two sides to every story however and all of these players do as much good as they do bad!

[Jase]

I think what tends to happen with all of the players mentioned and others, is people concentrate on a very small part of a particular players technique or signature tone/ approach, rather than looking further into what the player has to offer.

[Jase]

[quote name='onehappybunny' post='233292' date='Jul 5 2008, 07:00 PM']Jaco Pastorius... :ph34r: ducks, and runs for cover :ph34r: ... obviously very, very talented but helped encourage the bunch of followers who seem more interested in technique-for-technique-sake [/quote]


I don't get the Jaco thing....I don't think he was that technical at all, talented in bass playing, choosing the right parts to play and writting but a tech whizz on the bass I'm not so sure.

[onehappybunny]

[quote name='Jase' post='233311' date='Jul 5 2008, 08:20 PM']I don't get the Jaco thing....I don't think he was that technical at all, talented in bass playing, choosing the right parts to play and writting but a tech whizz on the bass I'm not so sure.[/quote]


Jase, trust me... by my (extremely low) standards he's VERY technical

[Jase]

[quote name='onehappybunny' post='233314' date='Jul 5 2008, 07:25 PM']Jase, trust me... by my (extremely low) standards he's VERY technical [/quote]

ok, maybe I worded it wrong... I mean there's stuff to listen too in his material, other than the solo stuff we see/hear, as there is with the other players mentioned.

[Jase]

If it's tech solo stuff we're talking....then this to me is super technical. I love Bill

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRuOQtg-pJ0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRuOQtg-pJ0[/url]

I can't see how this is as technical:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH2T-RjhyLY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH2T-RjhyLY[/url]

[Chris2112]

[quote name='Jase' post='233311' date='Jul 5 2008, 08:20 PM']I don't get the Jaco thing....I don't think he was that technical at all, talented in bass playing, choosing the right parts to play and writting but a tech whizz on the bass I'm not so sure.[/quote]

He could fairly play when he wanted to. Some of his stuff like [i]Continuum[/i] or [i]Current Affairs[/i] is more about getting the feel right than performing any amazing technical feat, but then you can't forget the solo from [i]Havona[/i] and such...

I think if you sit down and study, Jaco's stuff is playable. Other stuff like say, what Michael Manring does is basically undoable for pretty much everyone.

[Sarah5string]

I agree with the Flea thing. I just don't get the 'thing' with him..

[Guest]

[quote name='Jase' date='Jul 5 2008, 08:50 PM' post='233323']
If it's tech solo stuff we're talking....then this to me is super technical. I love Bill

Both were not my cup of tea but the Billy sheehan clip i found particularly pointless, for me there are bass players and people who play BASS, personally i am quite content to provide the bottom and rattle a few glasses off the shelf. Bill may have some amazing dexterity and advanced technique but i have no desire at all to emulate him. If you really want to solo this in my opinion is more like it

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsyO5BekKts&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsyO5BekKts...feature=related[/url] wait fast forward to about 2 minutes until jack lets rip

Enough of what i do like, back on topic. For me any bassist who plays 7,9 10 + string basses. 5 stringers i get, but i feel people who need that many strings might be better suited to another instrument perhaps piano? so for me any combination of solo 'bass' with ultra high speed tapping artificial harmonics which you often see on ERB's.
If you define bass by the frequency range and the role it plays musically surely these players are no longer bassists in the true sense but occupy a new role.

Before any shoots me down in flames i appreciate the skill of people like dood and ARGH who can play these beasts but if i wanted to be Hendrix i would play a Stratocaster not a jazz.

[Jase]

[quote name='steve-norris' post='233374' date='Jul 5 2008, 10:00 PM']Both were not my cup of tea but the Billy sheehan clip i found particularly pointless, for me there are bass players and people who play BASS, personally i am quite content to provide the bottom and rattle a few glasses off the shelf. Bill may have some amazing dexterity and advanced technique but i have no desire at all to emulate him. If you really want to solo this in my opinion is more like it

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsyO5BekKts&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsyO5BekKts...feature=related[/url] wait fast forward to about 2 minutes until jack lets rip

Enough of what i do like, back on topic. For me any bassist who plays 7,9 10 + string basses. 5 stringers i get, but i feel people who need that many strings might be better suited to another instrument perhaps piano? so for me any combination of solo 'bass' with ultra high speed tapping artificial harmonics which you often see on ERB's.
If you define bass by the frequency range and the role it plays musically surely these players are no longer bassists in the true sense but occupy a new role.

Before any shoots me down in flames i appreciate the skill of people like dood and ARGH who can play these beasts but if i wanted to be Hendrix i would play a Stratocaster not a jazz.[/quote]
All I used the clips for was to try and point out that Jaco wasn't overly technical compared to, say,...Billy who uses huge amounts of technique.....just something onehappybunny mentioned about players being responsible for encouraging technique for techniques sake but I don't think players like Sheehan etc can be blamed for that. If you look further the tech players are in fact, real bass players.

[LukeFRC]

a few things:
that bill clip is 8 minutes long.... thats a long solo! is that why the crowd is making the same noise you hear at football gronds when the away player is taking a penalty?

The bill one is flipping fast, but watching it he never plays any notes you dont expect him too. so he seems to me to be doing fairly standard things very very fast. If i practiced enough im sure i could do that.
The Jaco one is going all over the place in terms of melody scales and also rhythm. For me to do that i would have to know a hell of a lot more about music.
Ill also throw it out there that Jaco seems to be using the space between notes better!

[Paul Cooke]

I was always of the impression that Jaco set things back acceptance wise for Electric bass and Jazz... he effectively got us relegated to Fusion.

[spog]

Agreed. To me, double-thumbing is about as useful as tapping, what is the deal with this chapman stick thing?

[quote name='Oscar South' post='233144' date='Jul 5 2008, 01:53 PM']Heres a few from me:

Fieldy - really original, great player, really good bassist, great tone in the context and style he uses it. However hes largely responsible for the ongoing 'mid scoop' trend, he makes it work but when you take a bunch of kids who have no idea of how to get a good tone out of any rig playing detuned or 5 string basses with oversized amps and completely cut mids, its often not pleasant.

Les Claypool - amazing bassist, one of my all time favourates. On the other hand I absolutely cannot stand the millions of Claypool clone bassists who try to transplant their half arsed take on his style into whatever band they play with, regardless of genre.

Vic Wooten - incredible bassist, great teacher and all round excellent musician. Unfortunately he has also introduced one of the most unmusical styles of playing to the impressionable masses. He can pull his double thumbing off well enough, but its otherwise an almost worthless technique and I'm fed up of seeing young bassists try to usually unsuccessfully work it into their bands, it wouldn't be so bad apart from the inevitably sloppy technique that 99% of 'thumpers' seem to have.

Anyone got any?[/quote]

[Jase]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='233398' date='Jul 5 2008, 10:52 PM']I was always of the impression that Jaco set things back acceptance wise for Electric bass and Jazz... he effectively got us relegated to Fusion.[/quote]

Nowt wrong with fusion

[GreeneKing]

Surely I'm not alone?

Musically I love Jaco Pastorious. His playing sends me into realms of musical delight that few other bass players can manage. Nuance, tone and feel are superb.

Peter

[ARGH]

[quote name='steve-norris' post='233374' date='Jul 5 2008, 11:00 PM']1,Enough of what i do like, back on topic. For me any bassist who plays 7,9 10 + string basses. 5 stringers i get, but i feel people who need that many strings might be better suited to another instrument perhaps piano?

2,so for me any combination of solo 'bass' with ultra high speed tapping artificial harmonics which you often see on ERB's.


3,If you define bass by the frequency range and the role it plays musically surely these players are no longer bassists in the true sense but occupy a new role.

Before any shoots me down in flames i appreciate the skill of people like dood and ARGH who can play these beasts but if i wanted to be Hendrix i would play a Stratocaster not a jazz.[/quote]

1....Agreed,But my back cant take the weight of a piano,I dont really know how to play one,and more to the point,I dont want to,bar 'treating' the Piano,you kinda have only one way of playing it to create the sound,as far as I hear theres many ways of playing a note on a Bass guitar,even many places. I feel the NEED to have that many notes,because,well 2 & 3/4 to 3ish octaves is kinda boring,and I dont understand why having extra range,upon a single instrument,is such an issue...if it is an issue at all,for anyone. Maybe its a visual one,most people havent played one,or are capable,Im still learning.

2.....I havent seen/heard that at all,And I dont know anyone that does,save Bill Dickens,unless,like most people,you have made your opinion after watching that bloody Carbonne/Baudin NAMM Jam/SuperMario vids. I prefer the Al Caldwell vids,Hes taken the courage to film himself at the VERY beginning of playing his MIDI equipped 11 string. I see far more hand shandy ego crap and plain old stoopid done on 4s,if pootubes to be our benchmark of evidence.

3,yeah we go higher,but we also go lower,pretty much all of us ERBists have EADG,so where does that leave us? Ive had this out with musicians,that we are only linked to the Bass guitar,by really only 2 things.those being,scale (Around/under/above 34") and tuning. I have to agree,given the range we are capable of we could walk out and leave Bass behind,if we felt like it,But I dont*....maybe as far as saying 'we' dont,that Jaquo guy tunes his 4 string to SUB bass depths,IS he Bassier than you or anyone,because his range,technique and knowledge limit him so he only plays a 4? (of course not...to think that would be dumb)..But he feels closer to ERBists than usual Bass players.


I'll say this,pretty much all of us started on a 4. Like this guy,but we wanted more
[url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1EcxC5AgnPU"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1EcxC5AgnPU[/url]









*Im lying. I dont play Bass,I play music.

Edited July 6, 2008 by ARGH

[ARGH]

Negative effect on Bass?

Probably Leo Fender,he started the problem.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='233398' date='Jul 5 2008, 11:52 PM']I was always of the impression that Jaco set things back acceptance wise for Electric bass and Jazz... he effectively got us relegated to Fusion.[/quote]

And thank god he did! I know I'd certainly rather be playing fusion than traditional jazz. Perhaps more of a promotion than a relegation!