warwickhunt Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='365851' date='Dec 29 2008, 10:59 PM']I had a chance to compare my Eden Nemesis NA650 with Johnnylager's new Hartke LH1000 on Saturday. Using John's active Spector bass and with both amps alternating through my SWR Triad, I was really surprised to find that the Eden's inherent tone had more mids in it than the Hartke, and that was with tone controls on both amps set flat. To get the Eden closer to the tone of the Hartke, we had to dial in some of the Eden's 'enhance' control, which is effectively a mid-cut and bass/treble boost..[/quote] To further cloud matters... IIRC the Hartke preamp is based upon an old fender/Alembic design and if it follows the same rules as the Tech Soundsystems amp that I owned (which had the same design) then the EQ controls aren't flat when the controls are in the 12:00 position, I think some of the Mesa Boogie amps are also similar This might account for why one amp sounded more middy than the other however because I can't recall exactly what was flat on that system it could well be that the converse should have been true. I'm sure Alex commented in a thread that I had about my amp's EQ (the design of the Black Cat/Alembic/Fender) better than I ever could but a search hasn't helped me find the thread. Of course the Hartke might have a similar preamp but the EQ may have been altered, in which case what I've typed don't matter one jot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Indeed, generally those Fender tone-stack amps are closest to flat when bass/mid/treble are set 2/10/2. 5/5/5 is quite a big mid scoop. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnylager Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='365851' date='Dec 29 2008, 10:59 PM']I had a chance to compare my Eden Nemesis NA650 with Johnnylager's new Hartke LH1000 on Saturday. Using John's active Spector bass and with both amps alternating through my SWR Triad, I was really surprised to find that the Eden's inherent tone had more mids in it than the Hartke, and that was with tone controls on both amps set flat. To get the Eden closer to the tone of the Hartke, we had to dial in some of the Eden's 'enhance' control, which is effectively a mid-cut and bass/treble boost..[/quote] For further clouding of said waters, I find the Spector's mids quits prominent too. [quote name='alexclaber' post='365898' date='Dec 29 2008, 11:52 PM']Indeed, generally those Fender tone-stack amps are closest to flat when bass/mid/treble are set 2/10/2. 5/5/5 is quite a big mid scoop. Alex[/quote] Like this, I think... [attachment=17834:fender.doc] Edited December 30, 2008 by johnnylager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 [quote name='johnnylager' post='365987' date='Dec 30 2008, 08:07 AM']For further clouding of said waters, I find the Spector's mids quits prominent too. Like this, I think... [attachment=17834:fender.doc][/quote] That explains it then chaps.. Our ears weren't deceiving us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnylager Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='366200' date='Dec 30 2008, 01:23 PM']That explains it then chaps.. Our ears weren't deceiving us![/quote] And possibly why Merton likens it to his V-Type... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubs Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Hi, I would like to tell you my story My firts real amp was SWR Workingpro, very nice amp, really clean, near to hi-fi (all solid-state) then I went SWR grand prix - that was big step up.....tube give life to SWR sound, super sound....then I had little "crapy time" with Line 6XT Pod Pro(big mistake) and then I finally got DEMETER VTBP201s(i found that Myung, Shavo from SOAD, and Justin Chancellor use it)....ouch that was best I ever heard, no way Demeter is top notch and even when SWR was great Demeter was little better, then I got "downsizing mania" 4U rack was too huge for me... So I went into research what could replace my Demeter in smaller size .....I found Eden...I was very excited that it should sound like or near to Demeter as James Demeter helps made first Eden amp.... so here we come....Eden WT400 was BIG DISAPOINTMENT....I was so fool that I believe that it could replace such great preamp like Demeter... I was not able to settle with eden, I expect clean sound, with strong and tight lows and agressive highs... I get warm, "lazy" sound not oldskul not modern sound, very neutral sound, without anything what could catch your ears....I dont find EQ usable much (as said on eden website many endorsees-dont use eq) Enhace control seems to be bad joke - its usable till 9 hours, then it makes something like Fieldy sound.... For me it seem that eq and enhace should have at least half efficiency.....then they wont radically change sound in very little turn. Not good idea active controls. I finished with Eden absolutely flat, using Demeter BEQP pedal preamp with highs boosted, now I can get my favorite sound - it makes me feel that Gain on Eden doesnt able to feed valve without "clipping power section" (which means that whole sound feels like one big mess) so I have to boost signal with external preamp-Its strange. I dont claim that eden is bad, but its very strange amp, to me it seems like bad replica of SWR SMxxx range. Looks Like David Nordshaw take SWR and cut about half size and funcitions and sound quality Advances of Eden are Size and weight, and relative good sound quality if you get it for fair price.(which is possible) But from "socal" high end amps WT400 is weakest amp I ever try.... I dont understand it - I dont like Eden alone but with Demeter pedal pre, it giving me ecstasy.... Iam sorry i I offend anybody, I dont claim that its crap but definitely there are better ones....or it needs big research to get fine sound from it which I dont get as very good characteristic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubs Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I should write some official apologize to eden....I am idiot - i dont know how or why I could judge Eden so badly. On last band rehersals I try eden with bypassed Demeter pedal preamp, and it plays fine, I was surprised how fine - but then I again turn on Demeter and play with it. Yesterday I bought VBC 810 Marshall cabinet and of course I wanted to test it with Eden. So at first I tried my Ampeg 410 HLF with Eden and I noticed that it plays very fine, then I plug eden into VBC....ouch that was punishment for me..it sounds AMAZING.....killer sound. Then again to Ampeg and i tried to fidlle little with eq on Eden, then ampeg became sound very nice and near to VBC with flat Eden. and then I plug "EQ´ed" eden to VBC-that was a holy grail sound!!!...I was nearly to crouch on knees before eden and beg for forgiving for my slanders! I have to add that I´ve tested VBC through sellers VBA 400 head before and it sounds not as good as Eden (maybe tubes gone, maybe bad room acoustic, maybe whatever ) VBA is huge sounding beast but it lacks some kind of "deeper" character - brutal power! no punchyness just rolling bass frequency.That must rule stadiums!!!! I also noticed that VBC810 has more midrange than Ampeg 410, and it is far more "clear" (not mean hi-fi but clearer) I have to turn on horn on Ampeg to get at least "half of clearness" of Marshall-maybe its another factor to take in view when I throw garabage on Eden. Very nice experience - I must admit Ampeg 4x10 that it can be compared with "freezer 810" with no shame but 810 is king....and also must say that Eden is very nice amp, and I take back all my words againt Eden....it just need boost some frequencies - and find your own settings or use more "suitable" cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jones Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I've owned a LOT of bass heads, including Ampeg, Trace, GK and SWR. My little WT300 sounds better than any of them. It's pretty clean, but not totally sterile, with a bit of valve-y bloom in the lower mids. Perhaps that's why it loves my Precision so much. Someone said that Eden made the best pre amp around, but then voiced the amps so you didn't have to use it and this is how most people use them. I only use the parametrics for dialling out bloom with some basses in some venues. The cabs sound outstanding - my 210XLT was a revelation. I really need a 112 to go with it. They are incredibly heavy though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubs Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 [quote name='Brother Jones' post='391901' date='Jan 26 2009, 05:50 PM']I've owned a LOT of bass heads, including Ampeg, Trace, GK and SWR. My little WT300 sounds better than any of them. It's pretty clean, but not totally sterile, with a bit of valve-y bloom in the lower mids. Perhaps that's why it loves my Precision so much. Someone said that Eden made the best pre amp around, but then voiced the amps so you didn't have to use it and this is how most people use them. I only use the parametrics for dialling out bloom with some basses in some venues. The cabs sound outstanding - my 210XLT was a revelation. I really need a 112 to go with it. They are incredibly heavy though...[/quote] Yes its not such clean amp...especially if you´ve owned something like Demeter VTBP 201 but it still got long way to Ampeg Iam tempted by change of Ampeg HLF by 210+112 from Eden David Series....but Iam not sure if they will be enough - even when they got "super" efficiency and more power than HLF - Ampeg got only 98dB and 500W against 103/250W and 103/350W.....ampeg is monster which can be pushed really LOW iam scared that I will miss that super low end responsibility of HLF.....I cant imagine that i could push HLF to "speaker fart" with non-deafing volume I like operability of 2 cabs and also got love for 12" speakers HELP ME And of course I expect EDEN cabs more suitable for Eden amps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='johnnylager' post='366243' date='Dec 30 2008, 02:23 PM']And possibly why Merton likens it to his V-Type...[/quote] Only just caught this thread somehow Yes, it is. The V-Type preamp and the LH preamp are essentially the same, but the V-Type has an extra valve for the providing overdrivey sonic lushness. Unsurprising then, that so far I'm not missing the V-Type, but it has only been 2 days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimbeaver Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 When I first got my eden gear I was dissapointed as I couldnt get it to sound how I wanted, I had to go back to basics and after possibly 10 gigs I started to learn how to influence the sound properly, now I wouldnt go near anything else, I get compliments on my sound all the time from other bass players with just a T bird going in direct with no effects. I had a blow out the other day and dug out my trusty Trace Elliot ah600smx head and 4x10 cab and cant believe how crap it sounded by comparison. I also had a mate come over with his EBS rig, he had a 2x12 and 2x10 cab with the latest EBS head and I set it up next to my WT550 and a 6x10 set up, we set bith rigs to a flat EQ and tried a MM sterling and T bird. like for like both set flat the Eden rig sounded far far better in my opinion, clearer, punchier and just better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.