flyfisher Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 That raises a thought . . . . if you're a gigging musician but never make any money, so effective are running at a loss if you consider gear costs etc, can you claim that loss against the tax you pay on your other job? After all, if you were, say, a builder and did one job at a profit and another one at a loss, you'd only pay tax on the net profit of both jobs wouldn't you? I bet HMRC have already thought of that one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1392154665' post='2365495'] That raises a thought . . . . if you're a gigging musician but never make any money, so effective are running at a loss if you consider gear costs etc, can you claim that loss against the tax you pay on your other job? After all, if you were, say, a builder and did one job at a profit and another one at a loss, you'd only pay tax on the net profit of both jobs wouldn't you? I bet HMRC have already thought of that one though. [/quote] Indeed they have. As I understand it, if you are truly attempting to make a profit from your music, then yes you are entitled to offset a loss against the income from your other job. If you are running your music business as a hobby and making a loss year on year, but with no real expectation of making a profit, then no you can't. This is my position, and I explicitly state it on my tax return each year. There is a note about this in the guidance that HMRC provide, but I can't be arsed to look it up right now as I've been drinking Veterano and coke... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 [quote name='Si600' timestamp='1392122558' post='2364922'] It depends I suppose, I wouldn't expect to pay to see a band if they were on in a pub [/quote] It just goes to show how things have changed. In the 70s i regularly paid to see bands in pubs. In those days it was the norm rather than the exception to pay. I've seen lots of groups for free way back then but also have paid to see The Stranglers, Dr Feelgood, Average White Band, The 101ers, Eddie & The Hot Rods etc for 50p and i even remember seeing AC/DC for the not inconsiderable amount (at the time) of £1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Things have indeed changed since the 70s - almost unimaginatively. In fact, I'm not really sure why people are surprised why the cost of music has plummeted. Back then, there was pretty much no way that an unsigned band could get their music out there except by gigging and even playing pubs every day would only reach an audience measure in a few thousand over a year. The internet and associated technology changed all that and now there are thousands of bands who can make great recordings at home and put them on YouTube for the entire world to hear. Except of course the entire world doesn't hear because there are too many great bands online to work through. Music is probably being made faster than anyone can listen to it and that's without the advent of streaming services. In the 70s I had a paper round and earned just over £1 per week (cut the violins!) and I would buy one single every saturday for 7/6d (that's 37.5p to you youngsters!) or just over 1/3rd of my 'pocket money' spent on music. How many teenagers today spend 1/3rd of whatever money they get hold of on music? And I had a whole 'Top 40' of records to choose from but could only afford one of them and some of them I wouldn't even have heard if I hadn't caught them on the radio, so in the record shop I'd listen to two or three of them in the listening booth before finally deciding which one to buy. I even sounds strange to even write about it now, but that's how serious music was taken back then. Today, we've all got more music at our fingertips than we can listen to in a lifetime and enough of it is freely available that we'll hardly have to buy the stuff ever again. That's the world we live in today - right or wrong, for better or worse, but that's the reality. Edited February 12, 2014 by flyfisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1392165152' post='2365642'] Things have indeed changed since the 70s - almost unimaginatively. In fact, I'm not really sure why people are surprised why the cost of music has plummeted. Back then, there was pretty much no way that an unsigned band could get their music out there except by gigging and even playing pubs every day would only reach an audience measure in a few thousand over a year. The internet and associated technology changed all that and now there are thousands of bands who can make great recordings at home and put them on YouTube for the entire world to hear. Except of course the entire world doesn't hear because there are too many great bands online to work through. Music is probably being made faster than anyone can listen to it and that's without the advent of streaming services. [/quote] That's a really good post. Yes things have changed so much music wise since the 70s. I was just watching Danny Baker on BBC4 and he showed a clip of The Clash at Shea Stadium. Even watching that i had to pinch myself that i used to watch Strummer with the 101ers for free in pubs in West London before they started to be championed in the music press and it went up to 50p. Roll on a couple of years and i'm listening to The Clash one afternoon doing a sound check on the Give Em Enough Rope tour but even then i didn't dream that they would be playing Shea in 1982. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si600 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1392159392' post='2365575'] It just goes to show how things have changed. In the 70s i regularly paid to see bands in pubs. In those days it was the norm rather than the exception to pay. I've seen lots of groups for free way back then but also have paid to see The Stranglers, Dr Feelgood, Average White Band, The 101ers, Eddie & The Hot Rods etc for 50p and i even remember seeing AC/DC for the not inconsiderable amount (at the time) of £1. [/quote] Was that in the main bar or a separate room? The point I was trying to badly make was that if I went down to the Dog and Duck for a drink and there was a band on in the bar then I'd be surprised to be asked to pay. If that band were in the separate function room annex of the Dog and Duck then I wouldn't expect to be able to get in without paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1392146205' post='2365345'] OK, thanks I've had a listen to the show now. I think Kate (couldn't make out her surname) is talking nonsense. It's highly unlikely that a promoter would put on a show where "most of the tickets were guestlist" ... unless the promoter is (or connected with) the artist. I'd be interested in seeing a few details of that gig. [/quote] I do plenty of gigs with unlimited reduced price guest lists. I would say most of the audience were on those lists. Maybe that's what she meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankai Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Any chance those of you commenting on this thread, could weigh in on my other one about venues? http://basschat.co.uk/topic/224894-music-venues/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Unlimited reduced..???? Guess that venue wants it to look well attended ... If it was sure of a sell-out then it would not want to sell 'reduced' ## Local Covers band round here sold out a 350 plus venue in 29hrs.... ...not an original song in sight............... The website says "sold out" so I can't be sure, but I think the tickets were £10 ea.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dyer Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1392134582' post='2365149'] The problem is that there are too many pubs putting music on and people get used to not paying for it. And with the relaxing of the license fee...so many pubs can now do it.... BAD MOVE..imo. [/quote] Applies to covers bands mostly, but there is a very good reason why pubs, clubs and bars put on live music/entertainment, it increases their bar sales, on average, by 40% opposed to venues that do not. Remember that when you're negotiating your fee with the Landlord next time. And don't think for a instant that the owners are booking you because they like your music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Agree entirely that bands are only there to sell the beer. We don't play toilet pubs tho................ and the pubs we do play generally are musical people. But sure, if a LL hated the band that sold out his beer stock that night witrh a rammed crowd taking £6k that night, he'd LOVE you guys :lol; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1392206344' post='2365885'] Unlimited reduced..???? Guess that venue wants it to look well attended ... If it was sure of a sell-out then it would not want to sell 'reduced' [/quote] Pretty standard practice for local support bands opening for touring artists. There'll be tickets on sale from all the usual outlets but bands will be offered a number of tickets or the opportunity to have a reduced price guestlist for their fans. Works for the bands as people can see them.play a bigger/higher profile show for less and works for the venue because they've got a much better chance of filling the room, selling more drinks to more punters and making more dough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1392206053' post='2365878'] I do plenty of gigs with unlimited reduced price guest lists. I would say most of the audience were on those lists. Maybe that's what she meant. [/quote] That is the more likely scenario. I think this Kate was deliberately misleading with, "How are venues going to make money when fans expect to [u]get in for free[/u]?", or at least, attempting to be an authority on the subject. Promoters aren't stupid, maybe ticket sales were slack, and maybe he figured a house full of friends at half price is better than dozen a full price.... who knows..? Again, I'd be interested in the booking details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Talking of toilet gigs: [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-26225149"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-26225149[/url] Val is a great landlady and the Steamboat a top venue - wish we had someone like her around here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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