Black Sabbath basses

[Dingus]

I'm all Geezered out! Too much trivia!

[Dingus]

Geezer with one of his Martin Birch basses:



And his striped custom JayDee:



Geezer with BC Rich Eagle and Liverpool F.C -style perm and moustache, CIRCA 1980:

Edited February 13, 2014 by Dingus

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392320817' post='2367429']
Geezer with one of his Martin Birch basses:



[/quote]

Look out! Geezer's trousers are on fire!

[Big_Stu]

His first John Birch was a b/w striped EB3; they were commonly fitted with a Gibson style fuzztone though coupled with the very high output pickups (usually "Magnum" at 23 - 26 kohms) I'm not surprised at the "wooly sound" complained about. It's nigh on impossible to get a clean tone out of them since you can't switch the fuzz off completely.
He's also here playing what looks like a John Birch "J1" bass at around 4:45, possibly "J2" (they had rounder horns)
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45xdQlw-R4k[/media]

Tony's playing his Monkey SG there which was also "Birched" with a replacement "Simplux" pickup, though at that time it was still called the "Superflux" model & later renamed. Tony was so chuffed with his first JB SG that he financed John Birch to go into guitar production. But when JayDee left John Birch's employ in 1975 Tony had "old Boy" made which was the first guitar John Diggins made under his own brand, on his kitchen table because he still didn't have premises at that time.
Years alter in an interview in Guitarist magazine Tony repeated some gossip about John Birch & John promptly sued fro £50k IIRC. JB was never featured in the magazine again until my piece on his last build before his death.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Big_Stu

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392318326' post='2367364']
I'm all Geezered out! Too much trivia!
[/quote]
Sir, I bow to your magnificent knowledge of Geezer...and the fact that you played his Eagle (my dream bass of the early 80's).

The Jaydee is outrageously gorgeous looking...as most Jaydee's are!

[Dingus]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1392324462' post='2367507']
Sir, I bow to your magnificent knowledge of Geezer...and the fact that you played his Eagle (my dream bass of the early 80's).

The Jaydee is outrageously gorgeous looking...as most Jaydee's are!
[/quote]

Geezer is also on record as saying that the neck on that bass subsequently bent like a banana , unfortunately. A not uncommon problem on JayDee basses from that era . Hence he went looking for a replacement and discovered BC Rich.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Dingus

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392318265' post='2367361']
Yes, although he says that the night that Never Say Die concert video was recorded was the only time he ever used that Rickenbacker, and he only did so that night because he had forgotten to bring his own bass , which was a custom black and white striped JayDee by that time ( 1978). .
[/quote]

I'm sure Geezer would be the first to admit his memory of that time is probably not as good as it could be...
But, the Rickenbacker is all over Never Say Die (the album). It's unmistakable.

Ooh, and I've just remembered another one - the red B.C. Rich Ironbird bass used at Live Aid!

[Dingus]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1392382173' post='2367963']
I'm sure Geezer would be the first to admit his memory of that time is probably not as good as it could be...
But, the Rickenbacker is all over Never Say Die (the album). It's unmistakable.

Ooh, and I've just remembered another one - the red B.C. Rich Ironbird bass used at Live Aid!
[/quote]

As far as I know, according to Geezer himself, who, as you quite rightly point out, was by his own admission a bit "fuddled" during this era , the only track featuring a Rickenbacker on Never Say Die was (IIRC) Air Dance (it was definitely only one track, anyway) which featured a fretless 4001 , but there are plenty of other tracks where conceivably it could be a Rickenbacker , but at the same time, if you add distortion at the right frequency to most basses the start to sound a bit Rick-like, but yes, it sounds a lot like a 4001 to me on that album . I know that Geezer had been dabbling with a Gibson Thunderbird around that time, so maybe that features somewhere?

Talking of fleeting associations like the BC Rich Ironbird, I remember seeing Geezer with an Aria SB1000 at some point in the '80's , and towards the end of that decade a striking -looking white Status headless bass.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Dingus

[bartelby]

I've nothing to add, but what a great thread!!

[EliasMooseblaster]

Can anyone confirm or refute the rumours I've heard that he was experimenting with 8-string basses circa [i]Sabotage[/i]?

[Big_Stu]

Plenty close-ups of the striped John Birch EB3 here - and what may be the Iommi's original John Birch SG, that "Old Boy" replaced.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYrq1UGFL-w[/media]

[i]"Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath came to Birch's shop after having his ideas rejected by the major guitar manufacturers of the time, such as Gibson and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Musical_Instruments_Corporation"]Fender[/url]. Iommi was looking for someone to make him a guitar with a 24 fret fingerboard and high power/low noise pickups. Iommi's red [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_SG_Special"]Gibson SG Special[/url] received some modification in the form of a re-covered Gibson [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-90"]P-90[/url] in the bridge position and John Birch's own Superflux in the neck position. This guitar is in the Times Square [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Rock_Cafe"]Hard Rock Cafe[/url]. In 1975, Birch built Iommi his black 24-fret, cross inlay SG Special. This was the main guitar used on the albums Technical Ecstasy, Never Say Die, Heaven and Hell, and Mob Rules. This guitar is now in the Miami Hard Rock Cafe."[Wiki][/i]

Edited February 14, 2014 by Big_Stu

[Dingus]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1392388594' post='2368059']
Can anyone confirm or refute the rumours I've heard that he was experimenting with 8-string basses circa [i]Sabotage[/i]?
[/quote]

He did indeed have an 8 string Martin Birch bass around that time, and some folks venture that he is playing it on "The Writ".

[Dingus]

Geezer was also one of the bass players who had some input into the development of the Yamaha BB2024, and he has a black custom version :

Edited February 14, 2014 by Dingus

[Skybone]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392318265' post='2367361']
Yes, although he says that the night that Never Say Die concert video was recorded was the only time he ever used that Rickenbacker, and he only did so that night because he had forgotten to bring his own bass , which was a custom black and white striped JayDee by that time ( 1978). .[/quote]

Erm... I know they were "somewhat fuddled" during those years, but "forgetting to bring your own bass" to your own gig? Classic.

I did hear the tale that he'd got that Ric from Glenn Hughes.

Geezer's certainly used a lot of different basses through the years, but has always managed to sound like Geezer.

I got into some bother on another guitar effects-centric forum by stating that, IMO, the Sabbath guitar sound was pretty dreadful until around Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. The songs and atmosphere of those early albums is absolutely classic and engraved on my psych forever, and no matter how much I love them anyway, if you listen to those albums objectively and critically, the guitar tone sucks.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392390005' post='2368089']
He did indeed have an 8 string Martin Birch bass around that time, and some folks venture that he is playing it on "The Writ".[/quote]

Are you mixing up Martin Birch their oft producer with John who built a few of their guitars? AFAIK no relation.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1392390604' post='2368106']
Are you mixing up Martin Birch their oft producer with John who built a few of their guitars? AFAIK no relation.
[/quote]

I am indeed getting mixed up there, so thanks for putting the record straight! I had a feeling there was something wrong with that as I was typing it.

Regarding the the Tony Iommi/John Birch "misunderstanding" , as I remember it , the problem arose out of the fact that someone of the same name as that esteemed guitar builder had committed and been found guilty of a heinous crime in Birmingham around the same time that John stopped making guitars , and Tony had seen the story on the local news and for several years after that presumed it was the same guy.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392391109' post='2368115']
Regarding the the Tony Iommi/John Birch "misunderstanding" , as I remember it , the problem arose out of the fact that someone of the same name as that esteemed guitar builder had committed and been found guilty of a heinous crime in Birmingham around the same time that John stopped making guitars , and Tony had seen the story on the local news and for several years after that presumed it was the same guy.
[/quote]

This seems to be a running theme for Sabbath...didn't they end up hiring Vinnie Appice to play on [i]Mob Rules[/i] by accident? The story I've heard is that they were trying to get hold of Carmine Appice, but their manager ended up phoning the wrong Appice!

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392391109' post='2368115']Regarding the the Tony Iommi/John Birch "misunderstanding" , as I remember it , the problem arose out of the fact that someone of the same name as that esteemed guitar builder had committed and been found guilty of a heinous crime in Birmingham around the same time that John stopped making guitars , and Tony had seen the story on the local news and for several years after that presumed it was the same guy.[/quote]

Spot on! I spoke with the editor of Guitarist about it after John died & they wanted me to write about my bass. They'd printed a retraction and apologised profusely but he still went ahead & sued, so the magazine blanked him from then on.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1392391354' post='2368120']
Spot on! I spoke with the editor of Guitarist about it after John died & they wanted me to write about my bass. They'd printed a retraction and apologised profusely but he still went ahead & sued, so the magazine blanked him from then on.
[/quote]

It could only happen in real life! You can see how Tony had made that assumption, I suppose.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392391519' post='2368121']
It could only happen in real life! You can see how Tony had made that assumption, I suppose.[/quote]

Yeah, John was a bit of a "lovable" rogue with some of his business practises, or so I've been told by a couple of his ex-colleagues so it was bit pot/kettle & Tony had gone over to JayDees by then anyway so he would have been out of touch.
IIRC Guitarist even offered to do a huge article about John Birch guitars as compensation, so he really shot himself in the foot there.
I've still got a print-out of the fateful i'view somewhere, but it would be a tad risky to put it up here

[Dingus]

I found this picture of a koa BC Rich Eagle that looks virtually identical to one of Geezer's pair of these basses :



You can see Geezer playing his in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG_qF2mHOlA

Edited March 24, 2014 by icastle
Link fixed.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1392391786' post='2368127']
Yeah, John was a bit of a "lovable" rogue with some of his business practises, or so I've been told by a couple of his ex-colleagues so it was bit pot/kettle & Tony had gone over to JayDees by then anyway so he would have been out of touch.
IIRC Guitarist even offered to do a huge article about John Birch guitars as compensation, so he really shot himself in the foot there.
I've still got a print-out of the fateful i'view somewhere, but it would be a tad risky to put it up here
[/quote]

His guitars are like gold dust nowadays, that is for sure. Highly collectable, with prices reflecting that.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392392274' post='2368142']
His guitars are like gold dust nowadays, that is for sure. Highly collectable, with prices reflecting that.
[/quote]
John Birch SGs are because there's a collector in California that loves them, last I heard he had over 30 of them, SG style alone!
There's a JB Les Paul, or is it a J1, onEbay just now, last I saw it was at £350.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Big_Stu

[Dingus]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1392393457' post='2368173']
John Birch SGs are because there's a collector in California that loves them, last I heard he had over 30 of them, SG style alone!
There's a JB Les Paul, or is it a J1, onEbay just now, last I saw it was at £350.
[/quote]

I am shocked at that.

I know his one-off pieces can command high prices, and it's not surprising either if you consider that he really the first bespoke custom guitar builder of much note in the U.K , and his guitars were the preferred choice of a generation of British glam rockers. When you think how retro instruments are in vogue nowadays and how revered that era is by various cliques of would-be hipsters, you would think John Birch's guitars would be rocketing in value and desirability.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392324949' post='2367513']
Geezer is also on record as saying that the neck on that bass subsequently bent like a banana , unfortunately. A not uncommon problem on JayDee basses from that era . Hence he went looking for a replacement and discovered BC Rich.
[/quote]
Now now...you know I get punchy when banana necked Jaydee's are mentioned