endorka Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 So I'm transcribing the bass on "Stop In The Name Of Love" by the Supremes, and discover an interesting situation: there appears to be two bass type instruments on the recording, a bass guitar doing a quite sparse line in the lower register, and another instrument doing 8th note things an octave or so higher. It happens throughout most of the recording, e.g. at about 0:25 here; [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JplvR5MX6s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JplvR5MX6s[/url] The upper instrument is within the range of a standard electric guitar, so I'm aware it could be exactly that, but it sounds somehow fatter. Maybe some different kind of instrument? Bartione guitar? Old style 6-string bass like the Fender Bass VI? Does anyone have any idea? Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 could be the old 'tic-tac' approach to bass recording. one fat-sounding bass guitar and a baritone providing a bit more attack by doubling up the bassline. very common in country music iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 [quote name='ahpook' post='234112' date='Jul 7 2008, 01:16 PM']could be the old 'tic-tac' approach to bass recording. one fat-sounding bass guitar and a baritone providing a bit more attack by doubling up the bassline. very common in country music iirc[/quote] In terms of instrumentation that makes sense, but the interesting thing about this particular tune is that the line is not doubled - they are quite distinct parts. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnt Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 At the risk of re-opening of an old debate: Carol Kaye claims she played on this, and she was known for doubling bass parts with a Danelectro. (Carol was a session guitarist before taking up the bass too, and becoming more famous for that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Sounds like James Jamerson on string bass and a guitar playing the other line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJA Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I'll go for string bass (or maybe keyboard bass) playing the root-note part, Fender bass for the high part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassLand Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Hi BassChat, I talked to Tony Newton and he explained to me that He and Jamerson were the 2 bassist on Stop... Then he explained what the two parts consisted of. One sounds almost like a guitar playing a single line rhythmic ostinato pattern while the 2nd bass plays the dotted quarter / eight note groove (one octave below bass #1) that is really in the pocket. It was mixed to sound like one part. Motown used more than one bassist on several records and on Inner City Blues they had Babbitt play the odd phrases 1 bar, 3rd bar etc and overdub the even phrases Bar 2, 4 etc at a subsequent session. There is a BBC program from August 2007 that deals with Bernadette where they played the tracks solo'ed and had discussion with HDH, Abdul Fakir and Louvaine Demps (of the Four Tops and the Andentes respectively) talking about how the parts were constructed in Detroit at Studio A. I have a small excerpt on YouTube with pictures [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uw0mRsALQY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uw0mRsALQY[/url] We need to have the record of what these artist and producers have to say about their creations before we except what some others who could not have had a relationship with HDH, for instance lays claim to those historic recordings. Don't let History become Her-story. Here is the site where you used to be able to hear the entire broadcast. There is one for Motown 50 also. [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/events/60sseason/documentaries/recordproducers.shtml"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/events/60sseas...producers.shtml[/url] If anyone more familiar with the BBC website than me comes across a page where the program might be hard, please let me know. There is a link to the page above on my Jamerson webpage [url="http://BassLand.net/Jamerson.html"]http://BassLand.net/Jamerson.html[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Now that's what I call a good reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='steve-soar' post='502149' date='May 31 2009, 11:27 AM']Now that's what I call a good reply. [/quote] I agree. And what impressed me most was that he did not say 'IMHO' once. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Great. New Pics and new info. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Good stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Possibly the most concise reply to anything, ever! Brilliant :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Perfect - what more could you ask from BC eh? Unless of course you are Carol Kaye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassLand Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='lowdown' post='502160' date='May 31 2009, 03:42 AM']I agree. And what impressed me most was that he did not say 'IMHO' once. Garry[/quote] Hi Garry, The things I wrote in the post above are not opinion, they are comments based on fact. "IMO" is a term I use often because, without credible evidence (the words of someone who was present at the relevent events or published accounts thereof), my opinion is exactly what that which is being discussed is coming from me and I am vigilant to state it as such. My "opinion" is what I believe to be so considering the fact that "I was not there". It may be constituted by life experience which may cause me to come to a certain comment (read OPINION), or be something I read/hear (published or broadcast) which would cause me to have comment in a matter not directly related to the source. I talked to Tony Newton personally. We have shared the same stage, and I have been invited to various gigs as his guest. I consider him a friend (although we haven't seen each other lately). The BBC broadcast of HDH concerning these recordings does exist. In that broadcast I heard the words of Holland-Dozier-Holland, Abdul Fakir, Harry Weinger & Louvaine Demps regarding Bernadette, and many other songs (I was alerted by someone from Detroit as to it's subsequent broadcast and I recorded the whole thing). If anybody ever says that I am not factual regarding the content of that broadcast when I refer to what was said in that broadcast I have proof of it's existance. No need for "IMO" (humble or otherwise). When I was put in touch with the late Henry Cosby (co-writer and producer of "I Was Made To Love Her" by Stevie Wonder) and he says to me personally that "James Jamerson was the bassist on IWMTLR" that becomes fact in my mind and not really up for discussion. In the final analysis I am a bassist and I have played the instrument for over 40 years and I know what I hear but it is still my opinion as to what I "think" I am hearing. You talk to other people to give you the facts (because they were there or have and absolute reason to be believed) in which to draw the conclusion that what you thought was happening is indeed FACT (no more "IMO"). Thanks for all the comments about my remarks (opinion and/or fact). I gotta say I did hear something that I know to not be true on the BBC program this year regarding the History of Motown. In that program it was stated by one of the hosts that Bob Babbitt played bass on ([implied] all of) the "What's Going On" album. Of course Jamerson played on most (more than half) of the album and I cannot answer for the error in that statement but (in their defense) they are record enthusiasts and not bass players so I view it as a simple mistake based on a misreading of the liner notes on the now 37yr old recording. So, no disrespect at all to the BBC or the host of the series. They are to be commended as they did what American radio/TV has fallen far short of doing as far as documenting this historic subject. BassLand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='BassLand' post='502504' date='May 31 2009, 07:38 PM']Hi Garry, The things I wrote in the post above are not opinion, they are comments based on fact. "IMO" is a term I use often because, without credible evidence (the words of someone who was present at the relevent events or published accounts thereof), my opinion is exactly what that which is being discussed is coming from me and I am vigilant to state it as such. My "opinion" is what I believe to be so considering the fact that "I was not there". It may be constituted by life experience which may cause me to come to a certain comment (read OPINION), or be something I read/hear (published or broadcast) which would cause me to have comment in a matter not directly related to the source. I talked to Tony Newton personally. We have shared the same stage, and I have been invited to various gigs as his guest. I consider him a friend (although we haven't seen each other lately). The BBC broadcast of HDH concerning these recordings does exist. In that broadcast I heard the words of Holland-Dozier-Holland, Abdul Fakir, Harry Weinger & Louvaine Demps regarding Bernadette, and many other songs (I was alerted by someone from Detroit as to it's subsequent broadcast and I recorded the whole thing). If anybody ever says that I am not factual regarding the content of that broadcast when I refer to what was said in that broadcast I have proof of it's existance. No need for "IMO" (humble or otherwise). When I was put in touch with the late Henry Cosby (co-writer and producer of "I Was Made To Love Her" by Stevie Wonder) and he says to me personally that "James Jamerson was the bassist on IWMTLR" that becomes fact in my mind and not really up for discussion. In the final analysis I am a bassist and I have played the instrument for over 40 years and I know what I hear but it is still my opinion as to what I "think" I am hearing. You talk to other people to give you the facts (because they were there or have and absolute reason to be believed) in which to draw the conclusion that what you thought was happening is indeed FACT (no more "IMO"). Thanks for all the comments about my remarks (opinion and/or fact). I gotta say I did hear something that I know to not be true on the BBC program this year regarding the History of Motown. In that program it was stated by one of the hosts that Bob Babbitt played bass on ([implied] all of) the "What's Going On" album. Of course Jamerson played on most (more than half) of the album and I cannot answer for the error in that statement but (in their defense) they are record enthusiasts and not bass players so I view it as a simple mistake based on a misreading of the liner notes on the now 37yr old recording. So, no disrespect at all to the BBC or the host of the series. They are to be commended as they did what American radio/TV has fallen far short of doing as far as documenting this historic subject. BassLand[/quote] Hi I think it's more of a British .v. US humour (note correct spelling) thing than any disrespect or aspersion to the veracity of your post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Thanks for your reply to my initial question Bob - it's a great surprise to hear the answer almost a year later! Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='Hamster' post='502512' date='May 31 2009, 07:48 PM']I think it's more of a British .v. US humour (note correct spelling) thing than any disrespect or aspersion to the veracity of your post [/quote] +1 I did agree with him, and enjoyed his post. Oh well..... Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderthumbs Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Bassland, Very interesting and well constructed posts. It's a shame that you've made so few posts. I'm sure from reading that you've a wealth of knowledge that would be worth sharing on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassLand Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 This should be a great movie for bassists [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVlzykfuu-0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVlzykfuu-0[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderthumbs Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='BassLand' post='504948' date='Jun 3 2009, 07:10 PM']This should be a great movie for bassists [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVlzykfuu-0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVlzykfuu-0[/url][/quote] Good shout. One to watch out for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='BassLand' post='504948' date='Jun 3 2009, 07:10 PM']This should be a great movie for bassists [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVlzykfuu-0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVlzykfuu-0[/url][/quote] That was great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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