so.... what did you study to become amazing at improvising?

[fiatcoupe432]

HI there im just about to begin a journey with a new teacher ! Steve Berry from manchester .
i ve being playing for about 5 years now and im just in the zone where i want to get better and better ! i wanna lear improvise and create my own walking bass....... guys like manring , matt garrison , inspire me to want to become like them , it may never happen but i wanna have that kind of freedom.
Now what did you study?whats the best way? i had few bass lessons before but i ve learn more on my freetime then with the 5/6 lesson i had ....

[jakenewmanbass]

Well you've made a great start by taking lessons with Steve, he's a hugely respected educator and a great improvisor himself as well as being a very nice guy to boot.
For me, it was getting to grips with the chords, arpeggios, intervals and scales of major harmony (as in the chords of a major scale) because from there I could hear where a melodic idea existed and from whence it came, so then to introduce more complex elements like altered, diminished, augmented etc scales and arpeggios could be done incrementally as developments and derivations of those core sounds.
That and tons of listening to great improvisors, my personal favourites are Bill Evans and Kenny Wheeler.
You also have a world class improvisor on your doorstep, Mike Walker, who also teaches improvisation to all instrumentalists despite being a guitarist. Mike is every bit as inspirational as Steve, ten minutes talking to Mike about improvising will give you pause for thought you never imagined possible
Edit: At the top of my list for improvising is real melody and real ideas, so tons of listening is really necessary, and then try to execute all those things that will inevitably end up swirling round your head.

Edited February 17, 2014 by jakenewmanbass

[Mark Dyer]

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1392601103' post='2370586']
For me, it was getting to grips with the chords, arpeggios, intervals and scales of major harmony (as in the chords of a major scale) because from there I could hear where a melodic idea existed and from whence it came, so then to introduce more complex elements like altered, diminished, augmented etc scales and arpeggios could be done incrementally as developments and derivations of those core sounds.
[/quote]

Same here, my tutor never stops hammering home these lessons, (I'm a slow learner). 'Trane's Blues' with Paul Chambers was the first walking bass line I was told to listen to.

[JamesBass]

Know your notes, chord tones and wider theory inside out! If you can learn all your scales, arpeggios so well you can do them in your sleep you're half way there, the next step is ear training, know by ear what someone is playing and then your scales and arps come in to play but make them musical when you practice! Don't just play them straight, make them musical, play around with them and find your own little patterns and sequences when practicing with a metronome.

[krysh]

learn to listen really well and don't be afraid to hit wrong notes. aside being taught play to music that inspires you a lot. and play, play, play...

[Mike]

I think knowing arpeggios inside and out is critical to outlining harmony on the fingerboard. US bassist Todd Johnson has got improvising lessons for sale (music on PDF and videos) which I think is a brilliant starting point as it deals with arpeggios and scalic figures.

[Bilbo]

To add to Jake's post, I would just reference the fact that, in a Jazz setting, most improvisation is a dialogue between the various parties and that you will find the source of your inspiration in the playing of those around you. A piano lick, a drum fill and bass line etc. Or even in the theme of the songs themselves (Sonny Rollins is THE expert in this). The best Bass orientated book on impriovising I have ever used is the Chuck Sher/Marc Johnson book 'Concepts For Bass Soloing'.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Concepts-Bass-Soloing-Chuck-Sher/dp/1883217008/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392628661&sr=1-1&keywords=marc+johnson+bass

A small point, the two guys you have mentioned, whilst in no way lightweight, are not particularly advanced improvisers. You would be far better getting inspiration from a range of saxophone, trumpet, piano and guitar players (i.e. don't focus on one individual player). Seek out great improvisations, things that make your ears go 'aaaah' and make you think 'what was THAT'? Try Chris Potter, Mark Turner, Branford Marsalis, Joe Lovano, Keith Jarrett, Kenny Werner, Wayne Shorter etc. There are also great source books like Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns.

It is also important to note that you are starting a journey that never ends but it is the journey that matters not the destination. Look forward to a life of gigs where two solos a year (maximum) do it for you But it's the BEST feeling

And, yes, Steve Berry rocks!!

[JamesBass]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1392629371' post='2370685']
To add to Jake's post, I would just reference the fact that, in a Jazz setting, most improvisation is a dialogue between the various parties and that you will find the source of your inspiration in the playing of those around you. A piano lick, a drum fill and bass line etc. Or even in the theme of the songs themselves (Sonny Rollins is THE expert in this). The best Bass orientated book on impriovising I have ever used is the Chuck Sher/Marc Johnson book 'Concepts For Bass Soloing'.

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Concepts-Bass-Soloing-Chuck-Sher/dp/1883217008/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392628661&sr=1-1&keywords=marc+johnson+bass"]http://www.amazon.co...rc+johnson+bass[/url]

A small point, the two guys you have mentioned, whilst in no way lightweight, are not particularly advanced improvisers. You would be far better getting inspiration from a range of saxophone, trumpet, piano and guitar players (i.e. don't focus on one individual player). Seek out great improvisations, things that make your ears go 'aaaah' and make you think 'what was THAT'? Try Chris Potter, Mark Turner, Branford Marsalis, Joe Lovano, Keith Jarrett, Kenny Werner, Wayne Shorter etc. There are also great source books like Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns.

It is also important to note that you are starting a journey that never ends but it is the journey that matters not the destination. Look forward to a life of gigs where two solos a year (maximum) do it for you But it's the BEST feeling

And, yes, Steve Berry rocks!!
[/quote]
Book bought and now awaiting delivery! Cheers for the recommendation! Might also look at the thesaurus you mention!

[fiatcoupe432]

Great thanks guys any more suggestion ?tomirrow my first lesson with Steve berry what should I tell him?

[xilddx]

You need to find out what you consider to be 'improvising'. What does it mean to you? Why do you want to be a great improviser? What do you think you will achieve? Improvising is the result of other stuff - your imagination, the music you hear in your head, and the acquisition of the skills required to execute the music in your head quick enough to please and delight you, and hopefully the people around you. But really, you have to hear it in your head first, that's the real you. As Jake said to me, you have to play what you sing, not sing what you play.

Please don't neglect rhythm, space and time signatures, and playing with the feel - pushing and pulling, tension and release. You can still improvise beautifully with these often relegated elements. You don't have to be able to fly all over the neck to improvise, you can play a simple melody and imbue it with emotion by repeating things, leaving space, little fast bits, slow bits, messing with polyrhthym and timing, and intervals.

Then there are all those physical techniques that help you express yourself - you have to have something to say right? Getting all that visceral power out, putting your own personality into all the sh*t that inspires you, the sh*t that comes out your bass cabs. Hammer-ons, pull-offs, legato, slides, string skipping, cross-picking, fingering methods, using the thumb, slapping, tapping, which fret and string for a particular note, where you hit the string, switching from fingerstyle to pick, switching pickups, using effect pedals .. Improvising is MUCH more than melody and harmony, it's everything, every nuance that means something to you or came from you.

Listening really is the key thing, like others have said. You need inspiration from many sources. And it's not just listening to music, listen to people, listen to machinery, listen to your own surroundings. Think about how music, and everything else, affects how you feel. Then try to find out why. You may not find out but it's the thinking about it that's important. Then, somehow, you have to learn how to get all that sh*t out of your fingers at the speed of thought. And really, it doesn't matter how much you know about theory and techniques, it's about balancing what gives YOU a buzz with what is musically empathic with the rest of the ensemble, and the audience.

Be true to your personality, put time and effort into acquiring the tools you need to be happy playing and developing taste and judgement. There are very many ways of learning this stuff so do what fires you up with the help of someone more experienced who you resonate with.

Edited February 19, 2014 by xilddx

[achknalligewelt]

I found listening as widely as possible was the key. For example, I have been playing since I was 15, and the stuff I took from my first influences (Paul McCartney, Mike Mills) to my first dalliances with being a bit flash (Alex James, Chris Squire) to players I discovered literally this week (Peter Cetera - why did no-one tell me about his playing on the first Chicago albums before now?) has all stayed with me. I use the tricks I have taken from these players in a way that I feel works.

Now, I hate to reduce the craft we all share, but bass playing for me is actually pretty modular. Scales and riffs and sounds can be taken into a part, moved about and swapped for other things until you get an end result you like. What it takes is the experience of listening to and learning from others, and then twenty-odd years of practice and developing your own technique, getting it wrong countless times and sometimes a couple of lucky mistakes. You'll eventually know what works - there is a time for a torrent of notes, and a time for a sparse groove. Maybe there is an element of inspiration, but it's always 99% perspiration.

Your mileage may vary, of course. I play rock/pop stuff, so please do tell me if I am talking out of my hat.

[fiatcoupe432]

i dont have any issues in writing music or create basslines its just that when you come to improvise need a different knowledge
! today i had my first lesson with steve berry ! he s a master! great teacher and player . today pointed out all my mistakes ,something that no one did it before! was the best experience i had ,even if cost a bit more then i can afford but im still gonna do it! invest all money and time i ve got !