Your Bass Tone

[noisedude]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='236692' date='Jul 10 2008, 05:04 PM']I hate to sh*t on anyones chips, but its all very self indulgent.

(I don't think there's anything wrong with self indulgence though - so I'm not having a dig).

Only YOU really care about the subtleties of bass tone. The audience/listener couldn't really give a sh*t.

People describe their tone like it's a fine wine, whereas the audience is happy to drink jam jars full of Buckfast.


I suppose if buying expensive gear for the sake of it makes you happy and you imagine you hear a difference, then go for it. We've all done it. It sometimes concerns me that some younger forum members seem hung up on having the latest/most expensive gear (probably better than their ability requires).

But then I usually go and have a pot noodle and a w*** and the world is all OK again.[/quote]
True but the difference between good and great music is often built on such subtleties. In fact, the only time it's not is when your songs absolutely RULE. Then you can play like a chump and mix it like casserole and it won't matter. See Definitely Maybe for details.

The rest of us are trying to make the best of what we've got and if a quality guitar or amp makes someone feel that bit more confident in their sound, why would you knock it?

The theory I always go back to is that Billie Joe Armstrong goes into shops and tries out some of the world's most expensive guitars. I understand your theory, but if you live by it then you'd be telling him to "just buy an Epiphone, you're playing's not good enough to worry about gear anyway". Or to Eric Clapton, "never mind Lace vs Noiseless pickups, it's not like your playing is that hot, just play a Squier as well as you can".

Surely part of getting "your tone" is making your cruddy playing, with all its foibles, the best it can be for your purposes?

Edited July 10, 2008 by noisedude

[Bay Splayer]

very very pleased with my sound

sx `75 jazz bass with wizard 84 neck pup

dr fatbeams

hartke amp

[cheddatom]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='236723' date='Jul 10 2008, 05:42 PM']And I also like to justify the sh*t gear that I use.[/quote]

I'm using sh*t/cheap gear, and my sound still makes a big difference to the audience's experience. It's not just for my benefit!

Buy a PEs album BBC! I need celebrity endorsement.

[alexclaber]

Gear-wise, yep. Playing-wise there are always more subtleties to work on but few that anyone other than me would notice.

Alex

[Bilbo]

I find that the perfect sound is just over the horizon.....

[lukeward2004]

Having been through a whole slew of amps, cabs and basses the last 7 years, I think its safe to say I have settled on my tone and gear.

I find that my sound is nailed with my current setup - Bass POD > Aphex Aural Exciter C102 > QSC PowerAmp > Epifani UL310. Bass Wise, I use 3 different basses, a Standard Stingray 4, Vigier Passion III 5 String, and a Warwick Streamer LX 5 as a backup bass.

I spent quite a while setting up sounds on the Pod before I settled on tones for each bass, and I think I could get any sound from it if needed - I used to use a lot of effects but to be honest the Bass Pod satisfies my needs, I only use an Envelope Filter and a bit of EQ/Compression.

I used to have problems cutting through with my Jazz basses, but not since I got a Stingray!

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='237205' date='Jul 11 2008, 11:54 AM']I find that the perfect sound is just over the horizon.....[/quote]

Funnily enough my perfect sound was the bass/amp/cab that I just sold

[clauster]

[quote]BBC: I usually go and have a pot noodle and a w***[/quote]

If you reverse the order of those activities the pot-noodle might taste better. Just a suggestion.


Back to topic - I love the tone of my Warwick Corvette on its own, but in a band I'm really missing the sound of a P. I've had several P's from US to Mex and copies. Only other bass I've owned was a US Jazz which I didn't like at all.

Gonna try some split coil pickups in the 'vette to see if I can get closer to the sound I want.

I've got an idea for a Warmoth P-body, Satus J-neck bass into a bit of overdrive, compression, nice clean amp and that'll do me.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='237205' date='Jul 11 2008, 11:54 AM']I find that the perfect sound is just over the horizon.....[/quote]

Well that's because of the wave-length of bass frequencies.

[Adrenochrome]

I'm with BBC ['cept the pot noddle and extras...].
My cheap PV bass [both pups full, EQ flat] goes into my cheap Ashdown MAG or Ashdown/PV rig. The soundman makes it loud through FOH. That's it - my bass sounds great as long as the audience can hear it clearly.

If you diddle with your basic sound too much you're always re-adjusting to compensate for something else.

Edited July 11, 2008 by Adrenochrome

[cheddatom]

Obviously each bassist will have their own sound, and their own idea of how to get there. I am a little worried by the sheer amount of people who like to have just one sound i.e their bass, their amp, and maybe 1 pedal or something. This - "I change my tone using my fingers/pickdynamics/left hand etc" is what the audience couldn't give a sh*t about, they'll never hear any difference. They will notice a different if you have two drastically different EQ pedals, or a monstrous fuzz tone, or an octave pedal etc etc. I think that bassists need to get more inventive with their sound or risk being replaced by keyboard players (apart from pub-covers bands obviously)

[peted]

My idea of a great bass tone changes practically every minute of the day. I'm very happy that my gear gives me a good tone, but i'll always appreciate the great tones that it doesn't If you know what I mean...

[alexclaber]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='237334' date='Jul 11 2008, 02:32 PM']Obviously each bassist will have their own sound, and their own idea of how to get there. I am a little worried by the sheer amount of people who like to have just one sound i.e their bass, their amp, and maybe 1 pedal or something. This - "I change my tone using my fingers/pickdynamics/left hand etc" is what the audience couldn't give a sh*t about, they'll never hear any difference. They will notice a different if you have two drastically different EQ pedals, or a monstrous fuzz tone, or an octave pedal etc etc. I think that bassists need to get more inventive with their sound or risk being replaced by keyboard players (apart from pub-covers bands obviously)[/quote]

I think you are totally missing the point. I mean TOTALLY!

Alex

[Machines]

Definitely the Stingray for me. Not sure if the ABM is the perfect companion to it until i've gigged it..

[cheddatom]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='237351' date='Jul 11 2008, 02:51 PM']I think you are totally missing the point. I mean TOTALLY!

Alex[/quote]

In what way? What point is that?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='237334' date='Jul 11 2008, 02:32 PM']Obviously each bassist will have their own sound, and their own idea of how to get there. I am a little worried by the sheer amount of people who like to have just one sound i.e their bass, their amp, and maybe 1 pedal or something. This - "I change my tone using my fingers/pickdynamics/left hand etc" is what the audience couldn't give a sh*t about, they'll never hear any difference. They will notice a different if you have two drastically different EQ pedals, or a monstrous fuzz tone, or an octave pedal etc etc. I think that bassists need to get more inventive with their sound or risk being replaced by keyboard players (apart from pub-covers bands obviously)[/quote]

I couldn't disagree more.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='237357' date='Jul 11 2008, 02:56 PM']In what way? What point is that?[/quote]

We use our instrument to deliver the music. We are part of it. The sound of the instrument (whatever it may be) is totally subservient to the sound of the music. If your bass that is delivering exactly the same tone for every note it plays yet is still fulfilling its role perfectly then it doesn't matter that the tone is a constant. Conversely if you can drive the vibe/emotion/groove/feel/attitude/dynamics of your band and its music through just using a bass and amp with no EQ or effects then why is that not good, and why on earth would a keyboardist be better?

I can see why you personally might need lots of effects for your band and I know its something I've done in the past, and may well do in the future, but I'm currently nailing my bass sounds without any effects and getting very varied vibes from my playing through how I play. A non-bassist may think I'm just making the same sound all the time but they'll definitely feel how the vibe of the music shifts of which much is down to those allegedly pointless (not so) subtleties of how I'm playing.

Alex

[umph]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='234456' date='Jul 7 2008, 08:13 PM']After years of searching, mine was finally nailed here (skip the first half of the clip... the real fun happens on the second half)



...thanks to fantastic recording gear and a great engineer.

Now I just need to work out how to get it at every gig...[/quote]
am i going deaf or are you pretty mixed out in this?

[cheddatom]

I think that music has to keep moving on. The technology available today means that in 20 years time a rock band with a drummer, 2 guitarist, a clean bassist and a singer is going to be pretty damn boring.

"The sound of the instrument (whatever it may be) is totally subservient to the sound of the music" - I totally agree with that. However, I think that bass in the context of most ensembles (whatever they may be) is an instrument that gives more to the sound of the music than most other instruments. I.E when you hear a pop song on the radio, you hear the bass, and the vocals, the drums are keeping time but you can't hear every little subtlety in their playing. The guitars are there, but often only as a percussive element. Either way, I am talking about bass tones within the context of the "sound of the music" rather than the instrument.

The bass contributes to the sound of the music as a whole, fattening the texture so to speak. I think that this role can be widened with the use of effects, as well as chords etc.

Maybe there's no risk of being replaced by keyboard players, but if I was an aspiring singer song writer looking to put together an original sounding band, and I had the choice between a funky keyboard player with sh*t loads of interesting sounds and soundscapes, and a bassist who has a fender jazz, an MB combo, and can play jazz improv all day long, I'm pretty sure i'd take the keyboard player.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='237420' date='Jul 11 2008, 04:10 PM']...if I was an aspiring singer song writer looking to put together an original sounding band...[/quote]

Not to blow my own trumpet but I am an aspiring singer songwriter who has put together an original sounding band and my bass playing totally drives the music and live I don't use any effects. When I've worked with other songwriters I've come up with subhooks, textural, feel and dynamic changes that all significantly contribute to their music if not also justify a writing credit. And I can do that with just a bass plugged into a desk, nothing more. That's not to say I don't sometimes say "I need Big Muff" but it isn't that often!

Comparing a jazz bassist to a song oriented keyboardist is apples and oranges. What about a song oriented bassist with a session mentality? The vast majority of them do what they do with little more than a handful of basses!

Alex

[tauzero]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='236701' date='Jul 10 2008, 05:16 PM']Loads of music-lamens have complimented me on my bass sound over the years.[/quote]

They don't compliment me on my sound [1]. They do compliment me on my playing though, and that's what counts...

[1] They don't say anything nasty about it either

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='umph' post='237415' date='Jul 11 2008, 04:04 PM']am i going deaf or are you pretty mixed out in this?[/quote]

You're either going deaf, or listening to it through speakers with no bass...

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='237420' date='Jul 11 2008, 04:10 PM']I think that music has to keep moving on. The technology available today means that in 20 years time a rock band with a drummer, 2 guitarist, a clean bassist and a singer is going to be pretty damn boring.[/quote]

I'll bet you a million quid it ain't...

[cheddatom]

Fair enough, I didn't mean to create any conflict.

tauzero - I don't think gettings compliments on your playing is "what counts". I think it's how the group sounds as a whole.

alex - I think it's perfectly possible to get an original sound and still use nice clean bass in songs. I still find that this is enhanced more when there is a variety in the clean tone i.e a thin trebly clean tone for a verse, and a massive big bottom tone for a chorus makes the world of difference. Some will say that they can make this kind of contrast by using just their fingers, but I remain sceptical (but open minded).

wot - I bet you a million quid it is! e-handshake? Did everyone witness that? I am going to be so loaded when I'm 43!!!!



I think my main point is that when I go to a gig, as a musician, I am watching them play and enjoying that experience, and thinking "god I wish I was that good" or "god don't they sound good". Some gigs I go to, there will be a band that has a pretty continual sound. Now, I know that songs can sound different to each other, even if the sound is kept exactly the same, but without some contrast in sound, I feel that it all kind of merges into one, and this is where audiences get bored.

I'm not saying every bassist needs to start gigging with 25 pedals, but I am saying that variety in tone is very important IM(not so)HO, and the most effective way of acheiving contrast in sounds is using pedals/footswitchable rackmount pre-amps/whatever. The contrast that YOU hear when playing a bit lighter/harder with/without a pick over the bridge/neck is pretty much negligable by the time it gets to the ears of the audience, and so I recommend effects etc to exaggerrate the contrast in sounds, therefore (hopefully) keeping the audience's attention.

Obviously i'm probably wrong as always, but i'd rather you read it thinking "he may have a small bit of a point here" rather than "what a twat - he wants a keyboard player!".

[Oscar South]

I hate this recent elitist-regressive attitude towards bass gear. The people who enjoy building elaborate rigs, buying expensive basses and setting up complex pedal chains don't harass the people who choose not to about not doing it, so why can't you be content with not buying gear and let the people who do enjoy it get on with enjoying it?

Edited July 11, 2008 by Oscar South