Vintage basses sound better

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

This thread will run ..

I have many basses . The 77 Telebass Is what it says on the tin..bass! The ironic thing is , back in the day , the bass on many records was not as upfront as now . In the 80s for example even thrash bands such as overkill were using active basses and you could hear the bass much more.
Production of course has evolved ,

I haven't tried other fenders , but obviously have heard them in live settings . Stevie Harris sounds
clanky IMHO . Geddys sounds good.
But teles are heavy like bison and muddy to some. Status are bright ,and would make me sound like I have new strings on permanently.

[discreet]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1392888789' post='2373767']
...more opinion dressed up as fact.
[/quote]

Otherwise known as 'a forum...'

[discreet]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1392898554' post='2373894']
I liked those little Messerschmidts...
[/quote]

Yes, the Wehrmacht failed to conquer these islands so instead swamped the car market after the war. That assault continues...

[BigRedX]

I own, or have owned various basses of different ages and can't say that the older ones sound any "better". They sound different, but that's because they are different basses.

My oldest bass sounds good, but IMO that's probably more down to the fact that it's had 50 years of tweaking and modifications to get that way rather than simply because it is old. My current favourite sounding bass in the context of the Terrortones was made in the last couple of years.

Does that tell you anything? No. As I thought.

Edited February 20, 2014 by BigRedX

[jazzyvee]

Interesting thread. I've read that older instruments sound better partly because they have been played a lot and somehow this helps in relieving the stresses in the wood and hence allow it to vibrate more efficiently and ultimately getting a better sound. Maybe one of these ToneRite devices could help give a newer instrument a vintage sound....

[url="http://tonerite.com/3rd-generation"]Bass Guitar [/url]

But then I've read here often that the tone is in the fingers so maybe you need old fingers to get a vintage sound and not a vintage bass.

Jazzyvee

Edited February 20, 2014 by jazzyvee

[discreet]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1392903775' post='2373968']Maybe one of these ToneRite devices could help give a newer instrument a vintage sound....
[url="http://tonerite.com/3rd-generation"]Bass Guitar[/url][size=4][/quote][/size]
[size=4]Talk about snake oil! So that thing 'plays in' a new instrument so it sounds vintage? Only in America! [/size]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1392903775' post='2373968']But then I've read here often that the tone is in the fingers so maybe you need old fingers to get a vintage sound and not a vintage bass...
[/quote]

I wondered why every single bass I play sounds vintage...

Edited February 20, 2014 by discreet

[BigRedX]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1392905156' post='2373991']
[/size]
I wondered why every single bass I play sounds vintage...
[/quote]

Most of mine sound fairly modern to me.

[discreet]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1392905387' post='2373995']
Most of mine sound fairly modern to me.
[/quote]

That's because you're a strapping young lad, obviously.

[BetaFunk]

In the 70s no one cared less about a bass made in 1960 and most musicians if they could afford it would have bought a brand new shiny 1970s one. All those vintage basses and guitars were left for the poorer musicians and the roadworn ones were placed at the back of the shop or refinished so they could sell them. Where did this mania of 'old is gold' come from?

Edited February 20, 2014 by BetaFunk

[Happy Jack]

eBay

[franzbassist]

I've played old basses that sound amazing, and new ones that sound amazing too.

I have also played old basses that sounded rubbish, and new ones that sounded crap too.

I think a lot of it actually comes down to feel, rather than the sound per se. There's something about a bass that's been played a lot that just feels right.

So many intangibles at play....

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1392907553' post='2374030']
In the 70s no one cared less about a bass made in 1960 and most musicians if they could afford it would have bought a brand new shiny 1970s one. All those vintage basses and guitars were left for the poorer musicians and the roadworn ones were placed at the back of the shop or refinished so they could sell them. Where did this mania of 'old is gold' come from?
[/quote]

+1

Tbh I find the fixation on particular periods of music and the instruments associated with them incredibly boring, I like a nice Jazz bass but the obsession with "vintage" Fender styles is a little weird to me. There's tons of cool basses out there in all different shapes and sizes yet if you have a knackered old plank with a fag burn on the headstock that looks like it's had a tub of paint stripper thrown at it and dropped down a flight of stairs then you get immediate kudos.

Still, makes all those unfashionable 80s and 90s basses a little cheaper for everyone else!

[chris_b]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1392907553' post='2374030']
....In the 70s no one cared less about a bass made in 1960 and most musicians if they could afford it would have bought a brand new shiny 1970s one. All those vintage basses and guitars were left for the poorer musicians and the roadworn ones were placed at the back of the shop or refinished so they could sell them. Where did this mania of 'old is gold' come from?....
[/quote]

Not true.

By the end of the 60's the term Pre CBS was in common use to denote a bass of better quality and tone than was available from CBS Fenders.

Those basses were very sought after and were unlikely to end up in the hands of "poor" musicians".

[krysh]

vintage basses sound better?

some do and some don't.

[Skol303]

I'm in the process of putting together a '74 Precision but it's got nothing to do with how it'll sound and everything to do with me being 40 this year. I just like the idea of having a bass that's got a nice, aged patina to match my own.

There's talk of older wood being dryer and consequently more 'resonant', but frankly I'm not qualified to judge and probably wouldn't be able to notice anyway.

But the whole notion of "old stuff is best" is pretty much what fuels the entire antiques industry. You could apply the same logic we're using in this discussion to antique cars, pottery, art, furniture, etc. The old stuff will always be more expensive but often less practical and functional than the newer stuff (not always the case, of course). But most people don't value old stuff because it's somehow 'better' than its modern counterpart, they value it because it's simply old and steeped in nostalgia. That's not something you can fabricate; hence it has value.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1392907553' post='2374030']
In the 70s no one cared less about a bass made in 1960 and most musicians if they could afford it would have bought a brand new shiny 1970s one. All those vintage basses and guitars were left for the poorer musicians and the roadworn ones were placed at the back of the shop or refinished so they could sell them. Where did this mania of 'old is gold' come from?
[/quote]
This doesn't fit with my 1970s experience at all. In the 1970s Pre-CBS Fenders were both valued and sought after. Specifically I played with a guitarist who had a Pre-CBS Strat but didn't gig with it because of its value.

[Lozz196]

I`d say they can sound different - both of my 70s Precisions had a different sound to my modern US built ones. But then they were made of ash, not alder, and the pickups are reputed as being somewhat scooped on the 70s. Were they better, well yes, for some people, and no for others. Depends on what you want to hear really.

[razze06]

All the great basslines of the 60s and 70s were largely played on new instruments. Age of the instrument does wonders for the listener's perception of its value.

Having said that, certain vintage/old basses sound and feel amazing, but I bet you they did even when they were new

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1392913988' post='2374133']
This doesn't fit with my 1970s experience at all. In the 1970s Pre-CBS Fenders were both valued and sought after. Specifically I played with a guitarist who had a Pre-CBS Strat but didn't gig with it because of its value.
[/quote]
In the 70s a friend of mine had a pre-CBS Stratocaster that was really chipped and worn and because of that was only offered a fraction of the price of a new Stratocaster in part exchange in guitar shop. The Stratocaster was then refinished before being put on sale (at a price well below a new one) because no one wanted 'roadworn' (or tatty as they were called then) guitars back then. In my experience it was the 1980s when people started get really excited about the pre-CBS thing.

Edited February 20, 2014 by BetaFunk

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1392916505' post='2374174']

In the 70s a friend of mine had a pre-CBS Stratocaster that was really chipped and worn and because of that was only offered a fraction of the price of a new Stratocaster in part exchange in guitar shop. The Stratocaster was then refinished before being put on sale (at a price well below a new one) because no one wanted 'roadworn' (or tatty as they were called then) guitars back then. In my experience it was the 1980s when people started get really excited about the pre-CBS thing.
[/quote]

So we had rather different experiences of the 1970s.

[chris_b]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1392916965' post='2374184']
....So we had rather different experiences of the 1970s....
[/quote]

+1

I couldn't afford a Pre CBS Precsion in the late 60's. If you were lucky enough to find one, they far outstripped the price of the new one I had to buy.


What we were offered for part exchange in shops back then was tantamount to daylight robbery. The back pages of Melody Maker was the best place to sell gear.

[ezbass]

OK I'm being lazy and haven't read the whole thread (I'm on holiday and just grabbing a few mins internet time each day) but I'll add my 10p's worth to the OP title; do vintage basses sound better? Hard to answer, but they do sound different (well Fenders do anyway) I can only imagine that is mainly down to a certain amount of de-gaussing of the pickups, then you have a drying of the woods and whatever the vibrations of years of playing do to the whole shebang.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Jimmyfingers' timestamp='1392853472' post='2373656']
Why is that when people go on about older guitars sounding better they are only ever talking about Fenders?

Back in the 80's you'd get people crowing on about 62 Precision or whatever, and I suppose they were pretty much the only brand that could have much of a vintage being the first production basses. So somehow a 20 year old Fender sounded better than a new one.

But now, you can get Warwick's or Status that are 20+ years of, and yet I've never heard anybody making claims for them sounding better.

Weird.

My first post, and I'm chuffed because I've just bought a 9 year old Warwick. My first bass since stopping playing about 10 years ago.
[/quote]

Well, that's a very interesting point.

If what you mean is that it is a little incongruous that some brands and overall styles of basses are considered more apt to be considered "vintage" when they get older than others then that is absolutely right. The reason for that incongruity is that some designs are inextricably linked in peoples perception with modernity and ideas of enhanced fidelity , whereas other are associated with a halcyon age and euphonic warmth. Those descriptive terms apply as much to the romantic ideas in peoples heads as they do the sound of the actual instruments, I hasten to add, and musicians do tend to be romantics by their very nature. By and large, music is not a passion which attracts hard-headed rationalists.

Some older" modern" basses like Warwick and Status may be preferable to some players, but it is mainly due to changes in how the basses are built or the overall design rather than an enhancement of tone due to the ageing process. With Warwick basses in particular, the wax finish on the bass means that over decades there can be problems with cracking and delamination, and that or a dodgy truss rod rather than an improvement in the sound is likely to be your major preoccupation with an old example . The earlier basses were built very differently , in a much smaller factory/workshop in West Germany , and with very different neck profiles to some of the more recent Warwicks, so some afficionados may well prefer those specifications.

Also bear in mind that if you are marketing basses on the selling point of their being innovative and modern designs, as many bass guitar brands are, then your latest innovations and designs are most likely to promoted as the best rendition of that instrument so far. In contrast to that, vintage Fenders became sought after because there was a growing perception amongst players that the newer ones weren't as good , and so the latest version wasn't as suitable for their needs.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Dingus

[Chiliwailer]

Any room for a post about a guitar?

[attachment=155762:ljhf 022.jpg]

I have an old Martin parlour guitar from 1870 - with original hard case! It's Brazilian Rosewood back and sides and has such a sweet warm, soft and direct tone. Even strung with nylon strings this guitar defies how parlour guitars should sound, it has a big tone with lots of projection and absolutely no harsh mids, which parlours are known for. I've also tried two Martin parlours from the early 1900's when they switched to Mahogany, completely different guitar and not very nice at all.

The bridge and tuners have been changed and it has a few repairs but it's a real players guitar. I believe that the tone is all in the very old Brazilian Rosewood and nearly 150 years of use!

When it comes to acoustics, old guitars often sound phenomenal. Of course, I've also found the same with older basses from the golden age of guitar making so with Fender it'd be [b]l[/b][b]ess production amounts = higher quality wood and build. Mass production = less value.[/b]

Still, modern basses can still be great, as can 70's one's, but I find the pre 1968 Fenders have a feel and warmth that is unique and unreplicated. If that's good or bad, your choice! That's my 2 cents on vintage gear.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Chiliwailer

[gary mac]

Does Mr Chili have the oldest most vintage instrument on BC. Wow 1870.