'Exotic' cabs in the mainstream

[coasterbass]

Just curious really...

Having been a member here for 6 months now it struck me that before I was a member I'd never heard of Bergantino, Schroeder, Epifani and Mark Bass etc. I guess its because (to me at least) the main stream is still full of Ampegs, Trace, GK and SWR.

Is this a fair impression to hold?? And if so, why do people think that is??

The only thing I can come up with is the weight issue... that handling 2 x 8x10 stacks is a little impractical for the average pub band/semi pro.

Or is there a deeper issue, that by spending so much time on this forum we become more critical and continue the 'ultimate tone' search further than others?
If so, why do the 'pro's' still stick to 'regular' cabs?

Just curious as to what people think?

[ahpook]

[quote name='coasterbass' post='234522' date='Jul 7 2008, 09:35 PM']If so, why do the 'pro's' still stick to 'regular' cabs?[/quote]

i'd imagine it's because if they're hiring equipment on tour an ampeg 8x10 is easier to get hold of than a more 'exotic' brand or model.

but i'm no expert

[stingrayfan]

It's a good point. Boutique stuff is there for people with deep pockets. Not for me, but I can see the appeal.

[bass_ferret]

Well somebody must be buying the more exotic stuff or they would be out of business.

Dont forget a lot of pro's are paid to use a particular brand or buy it at discount prices - its called endorsements. The other thing to remember that acts playing Wembley will probably be DI'd and the rig on stage plays no part in FOH sound. Half the time its probably only there for appearance - like Geddy Lee's washing machines. Look how many are wireless and in-eared!

[obbm]

I was a Trace user for years. I had two sets, a 2x10/small 1x15 and a 4x10/big 1x15. Then following a magazine review and in the search for compactness I went for Ashdown with two 4x8s. They were not light however and had their drawbacks. Then I had the opportunity to get an SWR Goliath Senior 6x10 which was heavy again but sounded the dogs..... At this point, mid 2004, I had been a member of Bassworld for about 2 years.

Then in early 2005 trying to reduce size and having read such great reviews I went searching for an Accugroove cabinet. I went to a shop to try one, hated it and ended up trying and buying an Epifani UL310. That got me into Epi and a pair of 1x12s followed a year later. Nothing to do with the Forum, just a good demo in a shop that stocked them. The real problem is that these shops are few and far between, unless you live in London. Most local stores just stock the mass market products.

It's only this year that I have bought a cab based on the comments by other Forum members

[simondee]

there's ALOT of endorsement going on. I think it also depends what kind of gigs you go to.

I haven't seen an SWR rig in an age for example, but there seems to be an increasing amount of Aguilar stuff around since they've crossed genres quite well.

I also think us bass guys love exotic rigs that the mainstream haven't heard of, especially when they *hear* it

[51m0n]

A lot of it comes down to endorsements, for instance Jim Bergantino reportedly will not do the big endorsement deal thing, preferring to sell his products as a word of mouth thing.

You may not have bought or seen a Bergantino but there is every chance that you already have heard one of Jim's cabs since he has designed for many of the major manufacturers.

Some of these boutique manufacturers are smaller operations and would have a way to go to ramp up to the production runs required for truly mass market appeal. That takes time.

Doesn't mean they are less good though. I recently got a Berg AE410, and it really does blow every other cab that I have played or heard away. Much better technology, better application of knowledge and better compnoent quality really does make a difference, and not just to the dent in your wallet.

Most generic music shops only stock what will sell and sell quickly. Which means it must have a name in the general market place, since most people shopping are not going for top end boutique gear. My local shop is GAK, and they have a pretty decent bass section, they have been pushing the Markbass line hard for over 2 years, well before most of the people hear and on even on talkbass heard of them. Apart from the MB stuff though its all GK, Ampeg, Ashdown/Trace etc. No real knowledge of lightweight stuff other than MB, no desire really to get any Epifani, EA, Bergantino, Schroeder etc in , and I have talked to them about it! It just takes too much space for the amount of sales they think they will generate. And they are a huuuge shop.


They have just got in some Laklands, but they mainly deal in Ibanez, Warwick & Fender, with some Yamahas & Corts etc, the usual stuff. They havent heard of people like Clover, Wood & Tronics, Fodera, F, Roscoe, Ritter, blah blah blah, and selling one expensive bass every year doesn't work out for them.

[6stringbassist]

Do Bergantino, Epifani, Schroeder or Mark bass make 8x10's ?.

[Raggy]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='234955' date='Jul 8 2008, 01:57 PM']Do Bergantino, Epifani, Schroeder or Mark bass make 8x10's ?.[/quote]

Markbass do, part of the classic CL range I think!

[The Funk]

I use cabs that aren't available in shops. I never would have heard of them if it wasn't for this forum. I'm lucky I did - I had a cab problem I couldn't really resolve until I found these cabs.

Sometimes it's all fashion and trends. At other times, people are just being more selective when it comes to giving a company a huge amount of money for something they might be stuck with for a while.

[thisnameistaken]

TBH if I wasn't such a tightwad I'd be running a 2x12 or a pair of 1x12s by now, but it's cheaper and less scary to lug an Ashdown 410 to the gig. Not so nice for my back though, and I am a proper scrawny weakling, so no doubt I'll cave and buy fancy cabs eventually.

[51m0n]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='234955' date='Jul 8 2008, 01:57 PM']Do Bergantino, Epifani, Schroeder or Mark bass make 8x10's ?.[/quote]

Berg do a 610 (nv610) which is often reported to be a slayer of all 810s (esp Ampeg). Its a surprisingly shallow little beasty. I havent heard one, just saw it at Mark's (bassdirect). Looks to be a far easier haul than an Ampeg thats for sure, and if its as good as reported (and the AE410 is better than I could imagine so why not the 610 too) it would be killer if thats the tone you need.

[wateroftyne]

I can't think of any cabs the same size as my Schroeders that pack as much of a punch as them for a similar price in a similar-sized box. That's why I have 'em.

[coasterbass]

I think my original post is being misunderstood sometimes...

I'm not critiquing the choice of 'exotic' cabs. I know they sound the dogs, and save thousands of pounds in chiropractor bills each year.
My question was why for example, when I turn on my TV and watch Glastonbury, every single bass player has an Ampeg/Trace/SWR stack? The most exotic it gets is EBS.

Why do the pros not arm themselves with acres of Glokkenklang, Schroeder and Berg ??

[alexclaber]

Endorsements, riders and really nice PA systems. How much does your cab matter when you have a full-size PA?

Alex

[chris_b]

[quote name='coasterbass' post='236702' date='Jul 10 2008, 05:16 PM']My question was why for example, when I turn on my TV and watch Glastonbury, every single bass player has an Ampeg/Trace/SWR stack?[/quote]
When you get to play a festival there will usually be a house rig provided, maybe a choice, but if the house rig is an Ampeg fridge most players will go for it, because of its reputation as the Rolls Royce of big venue rigs. They do sound good on big stages. Turn round time can be tight and the sound man wants you to use the house rig because he knows it works and he already has it set up on the desk. It's just practical and safer to do it that way. Who wants to risk a screw up in front of a big audience?
You could say I've got "exotic" gear but on a festival I always use the house rig because it's easier. Anyway, you'd be better off taking your own sound man than your own bass gear as your sound is the FOH sound anyway.

[Jobiebass]

Im gonna be pretty straight here and I apologise if it offends anyone (dont think it will)

I think a lot of bassists who dont make it or cant make it blame their tools, so they feel they need to get better and unique things to make a statement or stand out. a cab is a cab. and to the general jo public, it wont make a slight bit of diff. but to you and your eyes it does. Im guess (hoping) that the longer you play and the bigger you get, the more things like this dont matter so much, play with what your given and dont give a s**t as long as you cut through.

This is all IMO, And im probably the worst for it, I spend more time looking at new gear then playing these days. But I dont have asperations to be a rock star. I just enjoy playing and learning, oh and spending lots of money on bass stuff I dont really want or need.

[BigRedX]

bass_ferret and chris_b have pretty much nailed it.

As soon as you're playing decent sized venues with big stages, your rig is really only for show and to flap your trousers when you stand in front of it. The FoH sound comes completely from the PA and 90% of the on-stage sound is from the monitors (100% if you are using in-ears). The sound will be DI'd from the bassist's rack which will have at the very least a Pod and a studio compressor in it. Who cares how big the Ampeg 8x10 is or how much it weighs when there's lifts and roadies to move it rather than you having to persuade your guitarist to give you a hand getting it up some twisty narrow stairs at your local.

The 'exotic' cabs are aimed at a completely different market. Those of us who want something small and light but with a killer sound because we rely on them for on stage monitoring as well as up to 50% of the FoH sound.

[51m0n]

Actually I would like to point out ythat a lot of bassists in bigger bands on bigger stages do get a mic on their rig as well as a DI, and these are then blended for FOH.

Personally I like the sound of a miced cab, and yes you really can tell. Try a motorhead gig, no way is Lemmie relying on a DI ,m 'special' case or not, its still true...

Edited July 15, 2008 by 51m0n

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='236782' date='Jul 10 2008, 06:58 PM']The sound will be DI'd from the bassist's rack which will have at the very least a Pod and a studio compressor in it.[/quote]

Really?

[bennifer]

Certainly at pretty much of all of the big name, big touring band gigs I've been to, and thats a lot, the bassists are 99% running a load of rack gear - preamp, power amp, compressor, sometimes a pod, yeah. Not just a simple basic head.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='bennifer' post='239860' date='Jul 15 2008, 11:31 AM']Certainly at pretty much of all of the big name, big touring band gigs I've been to, and thats a lot, the bassists are 99% running a load of rack gear - preamp, power amp, compressor, sometimes a pod, yeah. Not just a simple basic head.[/quote]
That's about 0.1% of the bass-playing population, then!

I think I'm OK with what I have...

[dave_bass5]

Like others here i only heard about the "other" makes from reading about them on TB or BW/BC.
Once you do start to read these forums you do find that there are lots of makes of cabs that you would never see in the shops but that are just the job.
Over in the USA these are easy to come by but for us we have to read about them and get opinions and then buy on line.
Ive got two Schroeders now and i only have them because they are what i want and fitted my needed.

If space, transport, weight etc wasn't an issue (like with the bigger touring bands) i wouldn't need them.

These "exotic" cabs etc fill a hole in the market that the mainstreams don't care about IMO.

also, most of us know now that you don't need a 8 foot high rig just to play down the local pub, but it looks good to the punters.

[MythSte]

[quote name='coasterbass' post='236702' date='Jul 10 2008, 05:16 PM']My question was why for example, when I turn on my TV and watch Glastonbury, every single bass player has an Ampeg/Trace/SWR stack? The most exotic it gets is EBS.[/quote]

You didnt look hard enough, i was using markbass and schroeder

[Happy Jack]

I have three drivers for using "exotic" kit (none of which have anything to do with what the pro's use).

The first is that a bad workman blames his tools. When something sounds wrong, the easy temptation is to blame the bass/amp/cab/strings/cable/phase of the moon/whatever. I stop myself from doing that by buying kit that I KNOW to be of a higher quality than my playing. If it sounds wrong, it just means that I need to practise more.

The second is that it's many years since I could afford to ignore back/neck pains. All of my kit is selected at least partly on the basis of how lightweight it is, hence my interest in Hofner and Bass Collection basses, Eden WT heads, and Eden Nemesis cabs. The only exception is my pair of Eden XLT210 cabs which I bought because ... well, just because really. So much for theory, then.

The third follows on from the second. One of the few consolations of being this old (i.e. 51) is that I now have more money than talent. I buy expensive boutique kit partly because I can afford it.

And I'm worth it. :brow: