The Chic/Bernard Edwards sound?

[Scott S]

I'm just after a bit of advice, guys...

Obviously Bernies' sound came predominantly from his fingers, then his Stingray (I have major Stingray GAS at the moment!) and from his choice of amp (Ampeg?) but how can I get close to his sound via guitar/amp settings?

Any idea of how he set his up his bass/amp eq's?

Cheers.

[Lozz196]

First off, flats - yes flats on a `Ray, from there, I`d reckon mids are your friend for that sound.

[Scott S]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1393193303' post='2377283']
First off, flats - yes flats on a `Ray, from there, I`d reckon mids are your friend for that sound.
[/quote]

Flats...on a 'Ray.. really?, wow, I never would have thought that. Thanks for the heads up, Lozz.

[MattM]

Flats deffo, legend has it that he used the strings which were fitted at the factory for many years without changing them. Dead flats then. 2EQ Ray, max the bass, treble just on a wee nadge, this will give a full round non-scooped sound a la 'Nard. A lotta folks try a Ray, max out both then moan about scooped one trick ponies.....

[Kiwi]

He is quoted in one interview as not knowing what strings are on his bass apart from them being the same set that came from the factory. However, if you listen to some tracks like We Are Family and Dance, Dance, Dance the strings are definitely roundwound.

[Scott S]

Any idea about his choice of amps?

[Cairobill]

Stingray classic (2 band) with dead nickel round wounds or flats. Thump city...

[Cairobill]

Amp is not the key element in his sound as he probably went straight in to the board, but an Ampeg SVT and 810 was his standard live rig I gather. The voice of the 'Ray is very dominant...

[Scott S]

Well, I am going to be in the market for a new amp soon anyway, but on a budget, so something like an Ampeg BA 112 would be as good as anything else do you reckon?

[Prosebass]

And some of this, prepare to suffer for your art...

[quote]Rodgers explains: “Bernard was a guitar player before he played the bass, but the last thing that he wanted to be was a bass player who used a pick. So he played with his forefinger and thumb, like he was holding a pick. He’d strike the string with the bottom and top of his finger. The strength of the low end comes from his thumb on top and the other three fingers curled up underneath, so he had the fattest pick you could ever imagine!” Bear in mind that it takes considerable time to build up the strength necessary for this technique. As Nile warns, “Bernard’s fingers would often bleed. If we played a two- or three-hour show, the blood would be dripping down the bass! But he was used to it; that’s how he played.”[/quote]

[Scott S]

[quote name='Prosebass' timestamp='1393201733' post='2377397']
And some of this, prepare to suffer for your art...
[/quote]

Oh yeah, tell me about it, I'm soooo struggling to nail the main riff from "Everybody Dance"; it's as painful for me to play as it is for my wife to listen to, lol.

[marcus bell]

Also a trace elliot fan

[Scott S]

[quote name='marcus bell' timestamp='1393202978' post='2377410']
Also a trace elliot fan
[/quote]

shame that I can't extend to trace elliot money; come to think of it i can't extend to Stingray money at the moment, lol

[Bassman68]

As has already been said, I think the amp has very little to do with it.
It's all about a Stingray & dead roundwounds in my opinion.
If you're on a budget,You could probably get close with a Sterling Sub & some 'played-in' nickel roundwounds & a touch of compression, through an amp set fairly 'flat' with perhaps a bit of low-mid but keep the treble on the guitar fairly flat with the bass control boosted?
The rest is all down to fingers & technique..

[drTStingray]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1393195693' post='2377324']
He is quoted in one interview as not knowing what strings are on his bass apart from them being the same set that came from the factory. However, if you listen to some tracks like We Are Family and Dance, Dance, Dance the strings are definitely roundwound.
[/quote]

I think Dance Dance Dance and Everybody Dance are on Fender Jazz.

However I think We Are Family is on the Ray with flatwounds. After years of trying to nail that sound I managed it with Thomastiks on a 2 band Classic Ray. The Ray can be surprisingly lively with flatwounds if you crank the treble a little, whilst having that gorgeous warm sound flatwounds bring out.

A thread on Talkbass discussed OE strings supplied on Musicman basses and it appeared they were GHS flats up to early/mid 78 - GHS rounds after that. My 79 came with rounds.

To the OP, you can certainly nail the Edwards sound using either a 2 or 3 band Ray but his playing style is complex. I personally don't feel it's necessary to mimic the strange plucking style but playing and muting triplet octaves is essential for some of those songs. His note and fill choices on My Forbidden Lover are total genius - and for me are very tricky to play.

Best of luck and hope you enjoy - a good simple and effective line to play is Strike Up The Band.

I think he may have played a lot of his parts straight into the board. Everyone has different views on amps but I always think that MM basses work great with class D amps like Markbass. Back in the day I used an Acoustic 371 with my Ray - great sound but massive - these days a small neo 410 and a featherweight 500 watt amp would do a similar job.

Edited February 24, 2014 by drTStingray

[The fasting showman]

I'm sure there was an article in Making Music mag (the A3 sized freebie) years ago where Bernard Edwards stated that he used an old Sunn amp that was mic'd, the statement was pitched along the lines of him playing down the choice of amp, i.e it was what he had to hand. I think the journo was Tony Bacon.
As to whether that was a valve Sunn or not, who knows. He was such an enigmatic player it's neither here nor there I guess, a Ray with flats will get you pretty close as others have said amped, DI'd whatever.
All the best,
Martin

[Scott S]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1393238175' post='2377566']
I think Dance Dance Dance and Everybody Dance are on Fender Jazz.

However I think We Are Family is on the Ray with flatwounds. After years of trying to nail that sound I managed it with Thomastiks on a 2 band Classic Ray. The Ray can be surprisingly lively with flatwounds if you crank the treble a little, whilst having that gorgeous warm sound flatwounds bring out.

A thread on Talkbass discussed OE strings supplied on Musicman basses and it appeared they were GHS flats up to early/mid 78 - GHS rounds after that. My 79 came with rounds.

To the OP, you can certainly nail the Edwards sound using either a 2 or 3 band Ray but his playing style is complex. I personally don't feel it's necessary to mimic the strange plucking style but playing and muting triplet octaves is essential for some of those songs. His note and fill choices on My Forbidden Lover are total genius - and for me are very tricky to play.

Best of luck and hope you enjoy - a good simple and effective line to play is Strike Up The Band.

I think he may have played a lot of his parts straight into the board. Everyone has different views on amps but I always think that MM basses work great with class D amps like Markbass. Back in the day I used an Acoustic 371 with my Ray - great sound but massive - these days a small neo 410 and a featherweight 500 watt amp would do a similar job.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info and advice, guys, one and all!

Yeah, I was looking at the Markbass CMD 151P Jeff Berlin Players School Combo (albeit that the budget would need to expand beyond that for an Ampeg BA 112) but given that it would be used for for what is essentially home/practice use I wondered if it would be somewhat excessive. I hate the thought of a really decent amp being used for only a fraction of its' capabilities although, having said that, it is marketed as being for "student practice"...GAS, what GAS?

[NJE]

[quote name='Scott S' timestamp='1393202349' post='2377407']
Oh yeah, tell me about it, I'm soooo struggling to nail the main riff from "Everybody Dance"; it's as painful for me to play as it is for my wife to listen to, lol.
[/quote]

Its a tricky riff but slow it down with a metronome and you can get it fingerstyle without too much bother. I have just about got it, and get a reasonable facsimile of the bernard tone with the bridge pickup on my roscoe beck with the tone almost or fully off. I have had a few compliments that it sounds like the record. I tried doing it using bernards 'finger plectrum' technique and its very awkward and painful, to be honest unless your doing it for personal reasons to nail it 100% i doubt anyone at a gig would ever hear the difference. I cant find a video where Jerry Barnes the current chic bass player plays that riff at all, they re-arrange it live. Perhaps even Jerry cant do it justice.

[Scott S]

As an interesting aside for a while I have been drawn to some of the more technical bassists (eg, Garrison, Gwizdala, Feraud, etc). Of course, these guys have almost inhuman facility and capability, and all make great music in their own right, but listening to Bernie it reminds me of why I first became obsessed by the bass guitar.

I wasn't even in my teens when Chic were in their heyday, but hearing "Good Times" on the radio in 1979 effected me on a profound level...and it does still to this day.

[Scott S]

[quote name='NJE' timestamp='1393241365' post='2377603']
Its a tricky riff but slow it down with a metronome and you can get it fingerstyle without too much bother. I have just about got it, and get a reasonable facsimile of the bernard tone with the bridge pickup on my roscoe beck with the tone almost or fully off. I have had a few compliments that it sounds like the record. I tried doing it using bernards 'finger plectrum' technique and its very awkward and painful, to be honest unless your doing it for personal reasons to nail it 100% i doubt anyone at a gig would ever hear the difference. I cant find a video where Jerry Barnes the current chic bass player plays that riff at all, they re-arrange it live. Perhaps even Jerry cant do it justice.
[/quote]

I was recently told that Jerry Barnes plays the riff using the "double thumb" technique. Dunno if this is true or not though.

[JJTee]

The Bass Player article on Le Freak a few years ago had Nile Rodgers confirming that, for that particular recording, Bernard plugged his Stingray directly into the board. There's also a video clip on YouTube where Nile confirms that during an interview in their prime the journalist asked Bernard:

"Bernard, you have that fantastic sound - what kind of strings do you use?"

To which Bernard replied:

"I dunno - what kind of strings come on a Musicman?"

He hadn't changed them since he bought it and just didn't care what type they were. So old flats or old round wounds....probably doesn't matter too much!

[Dingus]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1393238175' post='2377566']
I think Dance Dance Dance and Everybody Dance are on Fender Jazz.

However I think We Are Family is on the Ray with flatwounds. After years of trying to nail that sound I managed it with Thomastiks on a 2 band Classic Ray. The Ray can be surprisingly lively with flatwounds if you crank the treble a little, whilst having that gorgeous warm sound flatwounds bring out.

A thread on Talkbass discussed OE strings supplied on Musicman basses and it appeared they were GHS flats up to early/mid 78 - GHS rounds after that. My 79 came with rounds.

To the OP, you can certainly nail the Edwards sound using either a 2 or 3 band Ray but his playing style is complex. I personally don't feel it's necessary to mimic the strange plucking style but playing and muting triplet octaves is essential for some of those songs. His note and fill choices on My Forbidden Lover are total genius - and for me are very tricky to play.

Best of luck and hope you enjoy - a good simple and effective line to play is Strike Up The Band.

I think he may have played a lot of his parts straight into the board. Everyone has different views on amps but I always think that MM basses work great with class D amps like Markbass. Back in the day I used an Acoustic 371 with my Ray - great sound but massive - these days a small neo 410 and a featherweight 500 watt amp would do a similar job.
[/quote]
[quote name='JJTee' timestamp='1393257823' post='2377856']
The Bass Player article on Le Freak a few years ago had Nile Rodgers confirming that, for that particular recording, Bernard plugged his Stingray directly into the board. There's also a video clip on YouTube where Nile confirms that during an interview in their prime the journalist asked Bernard:

"Bernard, you have that fantastic sound - what kind of strings do you use?"

To which Bernard replied:

"I dunno - what kind of strings come on a Musicman?"

He hadn't changed them since he bought it and just didn't care what type they were. So old flats or old round wounds....probably doesn't matter too much!
[/quote]

This anecdote about Bernard saying that the Musicman bass still had the original strings on is often cited when this topic rears its' head, but it is important to remember that it is exactly that, ie an anecdote and not necessarily the last word in what was actually true. I suppose we will never know the real answer, but to my ears it sounds like dead roundwounds on Bernards' Stingray back on the Chic/Sister Sledge era, and definitely roundwounds on the recordings he made with it during the 1980's. Whatever the truth is , you could certainly emulate that sound pretty well with either type of string.

It's worth mentioning the Bernard went on to use Spector , G&L and Sadowsky basses during the 1980's, in addition to the Fender Precision, Fender Jazz, Musicman and B C Rich basses he was spanking during the 1970's. I seem to remember he experimented with an Alembic around the time he and Nile were working with Diana Ross, but that could be my memory playing tricks on me. If Bernard didn't have an Alembic at some point then he should have done, is all I can say.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Dingus

[Highfox]

..and I think he got nearly the same type of tone whichever bass it was that he was using.. The technique and timing are the keys in trying to sound like him.. Good luck there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1WMByLRgb8
Love it

[lonestar]

[quote name='Scott S' timestamp='1393240739' post='2377596']


Thanks for the info and advice, guys, one and all!

Yeah, I was looking at the Markbass CMD 151P Jeff Berlin Players School Combo (albeit that the budget would need to expand beyond that for an Ampeg BA 112) but given that it would be used for for what is essentially home/practice use I wondered if it would be somewhat excessive. I hate the thought of a really decent amp being used for only a fraction of its' capabilities although, having said that, it is marketed as being for "student practice"...GAS, what GAS?
[/quote]

Either of these amps would be good. Im a markbass user and have used an Ampegs BA15 extensively at rehearsals. Either would give you lots of volume, especially the Markbass should you ever decide to play with others and you can always turn down at home! Ultimately it's all the fingers though I'm sure that a Ray '34 and flats would get you on the right path, especially a natural/maple one which Im gassing for at the moment with similar motives to you.

[Scott S]

[quote name='lonestar' timestamp='1393268290' post='2378062']
Either of these amps would be good. Im a markbass user and have used an Ampegs BA15 extensively at rehearsals. Either would give you lots of volume, especially the Markbass should you ever decide to play with others and you can always turn down at home! Ultimately it's all the fingers though I'm sure that a Ray '34 and flats would get you on the right path, especially a natural/maple one which Im gassing for at the moment with similar motives to you.
[/quote]

The thing is, until I joined this forum back in November 2013, I had no idea that GAS existed as a recognised medical/psychiatric condition. It was a relief to find out that I was not suffering alone nor in silence.

I do love the natural/maple 'Ray, but my symptoms indicate the white/maple diagnostic sub-section. Oh, the sweet, sweet pain!