I've just had a CD playback on a £350,000 Hi-Fi system

[yorks5stringer]

As the second part of my venture to the Capital over the weekend (Taking in LBS on Sunday), on Monday morning I went to Audio Lounge on Wigmore Street to have a playback of my favourite album on their system.

The speaker cabinets were about 1.5 m tall and made of 19 mm glass ( you think Ampeg cabs are heavy?) and were designed so none of the internal angles reflected back on each other. There were 3 separate drivers in each one. The amp was in 4 sections, with a pre-amp and then 3 other parts ( TBH I was out of my depth by then regarding the explanation). I do recall that 1 of the amp sections was powered by batteries, presumably something to do with heavy currents being absent? It was all made in Holland apparently. I don't remember the name of the CD player but it looked expensive, as did the deck which was on an isolation platform too. Oh, and the speaker cables were not touching the floor but sat on metal discs holding them clear.

I took Sunken Condos by Donald Fagen and listened to that plus a couple of Aretha tracks from their collection on those big black flat things with grooves on.

Having had my ears assaulted by a noisy gig on Saturday night, then the LBS on Sunday, it was not a 'wow' moment to hear my CD on this system: yes , everything was really clear and separate but I felt I needed to do an A-B comparison with my system to try and gauge the difference. In fact I calculated my system cost 1000 times less than this one, is it 1000 times worse? I had the opportunity to go there late last week, prior to LBS and my gig, so maybe that would have been the better choice?

Anyway, I left there with a complimentary Suzy Reed designer cushion of Ray Charles, although there were lots of others to choose from and was back in the sticks just after lunchtime.

[Roger2611]

With top notch gear it's more what you don't hear than what you do, I A/B 'd my top end Denon amp alongside a British built Exposure amp, the Exposure just sounded so much cleaner and gave so much more room than the Denon.....I no longer own the Denon.....I imagine a £350.000 set up would sound pretty special even A/B 'd against a thunder storm which has got to be the ultimate bass sound

[Ziphoblat]

Good ol' diminishing returns. The difference between a £175,500 system and a £350,000 system is probably minuscule, and only worth it to the most scrutinous (and over-paid) audiophile; but that doesn't diminish the value of it to someone of that orientation.

[Big_Stu]

Many years ago when I first stuck a toe in the water of hi-fi I bought the usual mags to see what I should be looking for. One of the reviews was of a turntable which was based on a plinth made from the salvaged, salt-water engulfed timbers of a sunken Dutch sailing ship from a couple or so centuries ago. IIRC it cost in the region of £55k+.
Based on that I often wonder how much hi-fi is based on smoke and mirrors or just good trials in a decent room.

[BigRedX]

IMO, most HiFi is pointless. Unless you are listening on exactly the same system as was used in the studio where the mastering was done, you won't hear what the recording was supposed to sound like anyway.

I find it all a bit sad really can't we just enjoy the music?

[Bolo]

Its such a shame music isn't produced as intricately as it can be, really takes the fun out of all that wondrous technology!

[Ziphoblat]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1393965953' post='2386439']
IMO, most HiFi is pointless. Unless you are listening on exactly the same system as was used in the studio where the mastering was done, you won't hear what the recording was supposed to sound like anyway.

I find it all a bit sad really can't we just enjoy the music?
[/quote]

Can't agree more with this. I think it's rather telling that so many people prefer the sounds of vinyl and analogue recordings - our ears aren't really keen on perfection. Those random irregularities just make it sound more pleasant on the ear; more "natural", even. The engineer probably accounted for the fact that the bulk of people will be listening to the recording through low-end systems when mixing/mastering anyway.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Ziphoblat

[BetaFunk]

If i had £350,000 to spend i'd buy an old Dansette and a pile of 45s and still have £349,950 left to spend on far better things than some fancy hi-fi.

[Chris Sharman]

I use a Denon system that I bought on Fleabay. it is the best system I have ever owned. For the music I play in the room I have it is perfect, anything more expensive would be wasted on me.


am I a Philistine or just, well, you know, a normal bloke?

[cytania]

I'd buy a house. In fact that would buy two of my house!

[BassTractor]

I'm laughing my lungs out here!
£350,000 worth of kit when everyone knows it's mostly placebo, and all you [b]really[/b] need is a few metal discs to put the speaker cables on so they won't have to be on the floor....


Seriously though, must have been quite the Hi-Fi set. Sorry you couldn't enjoy it more, and of course, as you know as well as I do, this system is not 1,000 times better. It's probably noticeably better than a £35,000 system, which again is noticeably better than a £3,500 system.

[flyfisher]

I suspect the use of batteries was less to do with heavy currents than to ensure a perfectly clean DC power supply with no mains ripple or regulator 'noise'.

I also suspect it made no discernable audible difference.


[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1393945475' post='2386102']
Oh, and the speaker cables were not touching the floor but sat on metal discs holding them clear.
[/quote]

Did you miss out a 'dear' in that sentence?

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1393956901' post='2386282']
With top notch gear it's more what you don't hear than what you do, I A/B 'd my top end Denon amp alongside a British built Exposure amp, the Exposure just sounded so much cleaner and gave so much more room than the Denon.....I no longer own the Denon....
[/quote]

But did you A/B it blindly, i.e. with someone else switching between systems and you not knowing which was which?

[Big_Stu]

Personally I feel it's impossible to judge or slate hi-fi preferences as it is pointless having a particular bass or guitar because it'll never sound like it did in the shop, or when you first heard one of it's kind which caused your first interest in it.

[oggiesnr]

I still run a Thorens TD 150 through a Goodmans Maxamp 30 and a pair of Acoustic Research AR2 speakers. Cost my dad about £200 way back when. I sometimes look at an upgrade. To hear the difference I'd have to spend silly money and this forty year old kit holds its own with anything less than that.

I can't see me upgrading anytime soon.

Steve

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1393975474' post='2386618']


[size=3][b]
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=2386102"][/url]yorks5stringer, on 04 March 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:[/b][/size][size=3]

Oh, and the speaker cables were not touching the floor but sat on metal discs holding them clear.[/size]


Did you miss out a 'dear' in that sentence?
[/quote]

[yorks5stringer]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1393975474' post='2386618']
I suspect the use of batteries was less to do with heavy currents than to ensure a perfectly clean DC power supply with no mains ripple or regulator 'noise'.

I also suspect it made no discernable audible difference.




Did you miss out a 'dear' in that sentence?
[/quote]

I suspect your insight into the use of batteries is correct...... dear!

[gjones]

What is the aim of a top notch Hi Fi system? Surely it is to replicate the sound of an album as it would be heard in a top notch recording studio. I doubt Abbey Roads CD player, Amp and monitors cost £350,000 combined.

I suspect it's just an exercise in separating the obscenely rich from their money. Nothing wrong with that.

Edited March 5, 2014 by gjones

[Annoying Twit]

I read a high end Audiophile mag once. In it was an article where an audiophile contributor became concerned that the 'window' on his CD player was letting in light which might interfere with the reading of the 1s and 0s from the CD. So, he used tape to cover up the window. 'Did it improve the sound - it sure did.' There was then a big description of all the ways that the sound had improved. Nowdays people who have network music servers will claim that certain servers will sound better than other servers etc.

However, in the same issue they had a blind test of different amplifiers, and found that their testers couldn't tell the difference between a moderately priced amplifier and a high end amplifier.

I agree with the previous statement that any specialist audio equipment such as (e.g.) £500 digital cables should be double blind A/B tested against moderately priced cables to see if there is actually an perceptible difference.

If people actually wanted better sound quality when listening at home, then they should acoustically treat the rooms that they are listening in. However, to do so actually requires them to learn a whole lot of specialist knowledge. It's easier for a certain type of audiophile who can afford it to simply spend a whole lot of money on an audiophile power lead for their audio equipment, and then sit there being smug believing that they are getting a perceptible benefit from it.

Some audiophiles are an excellent example of how we as a species are particularly prone to superstitious beliefs.

Edit: I've had a quick look at an audiophile forum. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1118611066&openflup&57&4#57 I'm not surprised that there is considerable discussion of double blind testing, much of which shows a considerable misunderstanding of double blind testing.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Annoying Twit

[Conan]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1393969901' post='2386528']
If i had £350,000 to spend i'd buy an old Dansette and a pile of 45s and still have £349,950 left to spend on far better things than some fancy hi-fi.
[/quote]

Me too!

Bizarrely though, if I were to suggest something similar on a Gus or Fodera thread* (i.e. "I'd buy a Mex P bass and spend the rest on drugs") I would be pilloried as an inverse-snob or told that I was just jealous.

[size=1][font=comic sans ms, cursive]*Edit: I do actually realise that Gus and Fodera basses don't [i][b]quite[/b][/i] cost this much...[/font][/size]

Edited March 5, 2014 by Conan

[Bilbo]

What has always turned me off high end hi-fi is the fact that, were I in the room with the musicians who made the original music at the time they actually made it, it would not have sounded like that. I always liked ECM recordings for audio quality but, after hearing loads of live Jazz, I never, ever heard anything that actually sounded like, say, Keith Jarrett's piano in real life. The closest I ever came to that, for instance, was Kirk Lightsey playing a good piano in the Norwegian Church in Cardiff Bay about 15 years ago (for those who don't know it, the music space in the church is a round(ish) room lined mosty in wood). The world of the audiophile is rarified but it is also a hall of mirrors designed to feature the equipment and not the music being played. If the music sounds 'better' on a player than it woudl if the musicians were actually there in the room, how can it be judged to be a 'good' sound?

[uncle psychosis]

People that spend £350,000 on hifi systems are an example to us all.








No, really. They're a reminder that you can become rich without being smart. There's hope for us all yet

[Annoying Twit]

Very interesting reviews of an audiophile ethernet cable on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Cable-Version/product-reviews/B000I1X6PM/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1

[quote]
A caution to people buying these: if you do not follow the "directional markings" on the cables, your music will play backwards. Please check that before mentioning it in your reviews.
[/quote]

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1394018341' post='2386894']What has always turned me off high end hi-fi is the fact that, were I in the room with the musicians who made the original music at the time they actually made it, it would not have sounded like that.[/quote]

A couple or so years ago Francis & Rick from Quo were on the Simon Mayo show. During it they played the single of "Paperplane", which IIRc was from 1973.
When it finished Francis Rossi says, "I have never heard that record sound so clear, that's amazing, play it again", so Mayo played a bit fo it again & after that Francis started asking about what their studio monitor speakers & set-up were etc. He was still talking about it at the end of the show.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1394020018' post='2386932']
They're a reminder that you can become rich without being smart. There's hope for us all yet
[/quote]


Thanks for that, and thanks for that.


There's no need for me to restate good points that have already been made, but to add to those points:
When I worked in Hi-Fi, we organised A/B-testing in a concert hall, with the equipment hidden from view. We only did it once. The enormous, partly aggressive, debate about what we'd actually heard came as a total surprise to us. Seemingly, not only do people have very different ears, but also have different willingnesses to accept their own ears as the only ears that are worth anything.

As to the room in which the set has to operate:
Great point! I personally gave up Hi-Fi when we moved to our present house. All the sound quality we'd enjoyed in our old living room suddenly was not present anymore - no matter how we placed the speakers in the room. Analysing what we had to do to make it sound good again, we found we were not willing to do that, and sold the expensive system.


That said, good Hi-Fi equipment does exist. Happily though, before becoming a Hi-Fi nut, I was forewarned by a shop owner who told about the other nuts who'd only listen to a very select few recordings with great sound quality rather than listening to music.
From that day on I've always reminded myself that for me it's about the music.