White Cloud Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I wonder if anyone else can relate to this.... I have had the responsibility for creating the set lists for my band for the last few years, and I always find it extremely difficult. Obviously the occasion/type of gig will dictate the song choices to an extent (we have a pub gig on the horizon) - but its a task I dread. I think the problem is that I over analyse the songs and the way that they sit together. Any good advice to make this process easier would be gratefully received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I always thought that all and members discuss the setlist together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 General rules I use: 4:1 minimum ratio fast:slow numbers No more than 2 consecutive numbers in same key Try to spread out covers by any one artist Avoid 2 consecutive songs with same rhythmic feel unless going for a deliberate medley or segue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1394014923' post='2386844'] I always thought that all and members discuss the setlist together. [/quote] I send the set list out a few days before the gig and invite comment. Sometimes my drummer will point out tempo issues where the set would not flow - I always listen to what he says because HE KNOWS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 We do try to pace the set so that it has some kind of flow to it, and it's a democratic process. Other than that, no rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Ahh, no! Something in common with a drummer! AGGHHH!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1394015061' post='2386848'] General rules I use: 4:1 minimum ratio fast:slow numbers No more than 2 consecutive numbers in same key Try to spread out covers by any one artist Avoid 2 consecutive songs with same rhythmic feel unless going for a deliberate medley or segue [/quote] This is helpful systematic advice...I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1394014923' post='2386844'] I always thought that all and members discuss the setlist together. [/quote] Well, not all bands or band members are the same. My accomplices are very passive regarding set lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 There [i]are[/i] "rules" for putting together a good set list. Unless you are very good or have a room full of diehard fans don't start the night with a slow number. Don't finish the set with an instrumental. If you have a hoard screaming for an encore, make sure you finish with enough time to do 2 numbers, a 3 number encore is even better. The numbers should flow. Keys aren't as important but never have 2 numbers together with the same feel. If you only have 2 slow numbers, don't put them together in the same set. Start the night with your best number. End the night with 4 or 5 numbers leading up to a great last number. As always, this is rock and roll and rules are meant to be broken, but a good set list must have a shape, pace and structure. If you really are stuck, use the last set list as a starting point and make any changes you feel would benefit the new venue. [size=2] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slumjacket Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 If you can, why not put all the songs in order on a CD or mp3 player, listen and see if it entertains you. It used to work for me when I was learning new sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yup. Start and finish each set with a bang, bury the weaker tracks in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1394018376' post='2386895'] Yup. Start and finish each set with a bang, bury the weaker tracks in the middle. [/quote] What weaker tracks?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samashton12 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Last gig we played was a charity gig, didn't really matter what we played and how long for. So we done 50 minutes with no set list, i really enjoyed it. This came after months of gigging 30 minute sets with a strict set of songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394019218' post='2386915'] What weaker tracks?? [/quote] You've not heard any of my bands, have you?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratman Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I arrange the set lists by choosing the first 4 and the last 4 songs of each set first, then fill the gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 [quote name='Samashton12' timestamp='1394019464' post='2386919'] ....Last gig we played was a charity gig, didn't really matter what we played.... [/quote] I understand what you are saying, but my bands would adopt the same attitude to a gig if it were the Albert Hall or a "no pressure" charity gig. People see you playing and make their minds up based on your performance not on the circumstances of the gig. You should always play like Michael Eavis is in the house looking for a Saturday night closer for the main stage for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 [quote name='ratman' timestamp='1394021297' post='2386951'] I arrange the set lists by choosing the first 4 and the last 4 songs of each set first, then fill the gaps. [/quote] Plus one Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1394015061' post='2386848'] 4:1 minimum ratio fast:slow numbers No more than 2 consecutive numbers in same key Try to spread out covers by any one artist Avoid 2 consecutive songs with same rhythmic feel unless going for a deliberate medley or segue[/quote] Agreed - apart from the ratio one. It totally depends on the band, genre and individual gig slot. Some audiences prefer the slower songs! [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1394016947' post='2386877'] don't start the night with a slow number. Don't finish the set with an instrumental. If you have a hoard screaming for an encore, make sure you finish with enough time to do 2 numbers, a 3 number encore is even better. The numbers should flow. Keys aren't as important but never have 2 numbers together with the same feel. If you only have 2 slow numbers, don't put them together in the same set. Start the night with your best number. End the night with 4 or 5 numbers leading up to a great last number.[/quote] Great advice! I always find it extremely gratifying when I come off stage and go for a piss (probably more info than you were seeking! ) and hear several punters in the toilets singing/humming/whistling the last song - especially if it is an original tune! [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1394018376' post='2386895']Yup. Start and finish each set with a bang, bury the weaker tracks in the middle.[/quote] Yes - but I would argue that there shouldn't be any "weak" tracks in a set. Substitute the word "different" and I'd be happy! Another thing to consider - are there any changes of tuning or instrument? This affects not just guitar and bass, but also if the singer plays any harp/harmonica... Singers tend to forget about this kind of thing when they call songs "on the hoof" - but it will result in a train wreck if they don't realise that the guitarist needs to switch from Les Paul to Strat for some numbers, or if (as I have done) the bass player needs to tune the E string down to D or swap for a fretless!! There is a lot to consider in composing a good setlist, but sadly it is a thankless task Edited March 5, 2014 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 A lot of good stuff here, thanks to all. I think the fact that we play 2 x 90 minute sets (approx 32 songs) doesn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) [quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1394022750' post='2386980'] I think the fact that we play 2 x 90 minute sets (approx 32 songs) doesn't help. [/quote] This can also be an advantage! Especially if you have a few songs by the same artists. You can separate them farther (unless you choose to do a medley of some description)... I don't do that as I hate medleys with a passion! Try to split the songs to create two good sets, using the various criteria listed above. Allow for the "alcohol effect" though! Punters are often somewhat less discerning in the second set, and may not even notice if you play a track (that went down well in the first set) a second time! I always find it useful to plan a set that [i][b]I[/b][/i] would like to listen to... But sometimes, when you play the sets, some changes may be necessary. you can never tell how they will go! Edited March 5, 2014 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzodog Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Alcohol intake by the audience is also a factor. You may play a slow song early on because you want to keep all the fast stuff for when the audience have 'had a few' but if its catchy, a slow song can go down very well late on if everyone has a sing song. We do 'all or nothing' by the small faces late on and it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 All great so far, only thing I`d add is be brave enough to keep your two best songs back for an encore, and if not requested, don`t play them. You generally only get an encore if the crowd dig the band, so playing two songs that aren`t as good as what you`ve just done leaves a flat ending, so make sure they are your best. And of course, if you`ve not won them over by the end of the night, it`s unlikely you will with 2 more so save them, and go home without said encore - that you weren`t asked for anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) I always do the same - Impact song first , novelty song 4th in , ballad 5th , show number at the end. Any old crap in between that lot as the spirit moves - or more likely as I perceive the Williams will react. Might have been mentioned because I haven't read all through the thread but amazing to think how many running orders on old albums were dictated to by the constrictions of vinyl L Ps rather than artistic intent. My anniversary Sgt Pepper CD mentions the running order the Beatles wanted but couldn't have and suggests you program the CD player to do it as intended. Rumours too was supposed to have a superb song called Silver Springs but ended up with the only toss off on the album in 'I don't wanna know' because Silver Springs is too long. We are careful not to do anything fussy at the start of sets so we can warm our fingers up a bit and I can only do our All Fired Up/ Rebel Yell car crash of a medley near the end because it leaves my throat in rags. Edited March 5, 2014 by Dr.Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerstodge Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 We're all too blind to see our set lists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbytodd Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 in our old band we never used set lists.our singer was always really good at reading the crowd so he used to choose what song was next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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