What Was Wrong With Your Streamliner?

[discreet]

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1394362280' post='2390587']
It's the one thing I didn't mention as I needed the sale
[/quote]

Martin, I do not doubt for a second that you are anything less than 100% honest and your integrity remains intact.

[discreet]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1394363466' post='2390608']
I've found there's a few amps that sound great in a store or home environment but don't quite cut it live. Personally I've found the Streamliner, some of the Shuttle range and TC Electronics suffer from this. All of them seem to suck the life out of a bass at volume with a live band. I think some of this is definitely a lack of mids in he core tone. At home I don't want the mids slapping me in the face and they can sound harsh and abrasive so a mid-cut seems to smooth things over and creates a smoother tone.
[/quote]

Interesting, thanks. I'm not too worried regarding the GK as I'll be using it with a 1212L (mostly) which seems to have quite a pronounced mid-boost anyway. And I'm in a 3+1 band, so whatever's happening with the bass is very obvious, upfront and can easily be addressed.

[molan]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1394187231' post='2388818']


If Mesa had normal prices over here, I'd try a Walkabout.

It's not that I won't spend that cash, its that I see the distributor taking A MASSIVE chunk for no apparent reason.

I think over the next 10 years or so, as the international market continues to grow, and the web continues to dominate sales, then we will see an end to the middleman distribution.

I don't actually think having a 'distributor' makes it easier. There should just have an approved service for faults, but one that doesn't need to distribute.

Basically, everyone takes a bite of the cherry and we foot the bill. Annoying.
[/quote]

I must admit that, as someone who sees the retail side of the business, I'm seeing the reverse of your suggested trend Gareth.

More manufacturing brands are realising that they can be much more effective by concentrating on R&D, quality control and production rather than the monster hassles of distribution and handling retailers or, even more problematical, direct customers.

The cost of managing internal customer services and distribution can be huge and the time drain on senior people can cause all sorts of problems.

One of the biggest areas a distributor makes a difference is in storage of large stocks of cabs. The size and weight of most cab ranges mean they have to be land or sea transported to make any kind of financial sense. Buying one or two cabs direct from an overseas manufacturer means the relative cost of shipping compared to product value is huge. This means a retailer who's buying direct has to make large bulk orders. From initial order to delivery can take 12 weeks - I've tested this more than once and this is a fairly average schedule if the products are built to order (remembering that most specialist bass equipment manufacturers do not hold large stocks and make most things from scratch as they are ordered).

For a retailer this means laying out large sums in advance of delivery, long wait times for products and then problems trying to find storage space. The net effect often means that product range availability is cut right back or even discontinued completely.

My personal example would be Carvin - they make some really nice bass cabs but do not operate a European distributor model. Because shipping costs are so high compared to product value they are virtually unobtainable at a price even remotely close to their US equivalents. Our store doesn't even take orders on them because we can't justify the UK prices

A quality distributor can make a massive difference in terms of product availability and after sales service. My current favourite example is MSL who handle MarkBass. Their customer service is exemplary, product knowledge is great and delivery times are very fast. Warranty claims are handled without question and with total efficiency.

Synergy, who handle Phil Jones and Sandberg, are right up there as well and the new arrangement from Barnes & Mullins with Aguilar is proving to be top notch as well.

Without these guys in the chain you'd see massive issues with product availability and delivery times and warranty claims would be both delayed and patchier in service and quality.

Unsurprisingly they need to earn some money in order to offer this kind of service but in many cases their outlay is huge in order to hold decent stocks (this is much more of an issue with US made products because many Euro brands have a central storage hub with land delivery access).

Without distributors I'd see a lot of products disappearing completely from many UK retailers and, bizarrely, prices for some might rise due to scarcity and costs of individual shipping.

Of course, not all distributors are as good as others. Rather than getting rid of them I'd much prefer to see the better ones taking over more stock lines

[Musicman20]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1394365582' post='2390643']


I must admit that, as someone who sees the retail side of the business, I'm seeing the reverse of your suggested trend Gareth.

More manufacturing brands are realising that they can be much more effective by concentrating on R&D, quality control and production rather than the monster hassles of distribution and handling retailers or, even more problematical, direct customers.

The cost of managing internal customer services and distribution can be huge and the time drain on senior people can cause all sorts of problems.

One of the biggest areas a distributor makes a difference is in storage of large stocks of cabs. The size and weight of most cab ranges mean they have to be land or sea transported to make any kind of financial sense. Buying one or two cabs direct from an overseas manufacturer means the relative cost of shipping compared to product value is huge. This means a retailer who's buying direct has to make large bulk orders. From initial order to delivery can take 12 weeks - I've tested this more than once and this is a fairly average schedule if the products are built to order (remembering that most specialist bass equipment manufacturers do not hold large stocks and make most things from scratch as they are ordered).

For a retailer this means laying out large sums in advance of delivery, long wait times for products and then problems trying to find storage space. The net effect often means that product range availability is cut right back or even discontinued completely.

My personal example would be Carvin - they make some really nice bass cabs but do not operate a European distributor model. Because shipping costs are so high compared to product value they are virtually unobtainable at a price even remotely close to their US equivalents. Our store doesn't even take orders on them because we can't justify the UK prices

A quality distributor can make a massive difference in terms of product availability and after sales service. My current favourite example is MSL who handle MarkBass. Their customer service is exemplary, product knowledge is great and delivery times are very fast. Warranty claims are handled without question and with total efficiency.

Synergy, who handle Phil Jones and Sandberg, are right up there as well and the new arrangement from Barnes & Mullins with Aguilar is proving to be top notch as well.

Without these guys in the chain you'd see massive issues with product availability and delivery times and warranty claims would be both delayed and patchier in service and quality.

Unsurprisingly they need to earn some money in order to offer this kind of service but in many cases their outlay is huge in order to hold decent stocks (this is much more of an issue with US made products because many Euro brands have a central storage hub with land delivery access).

Without distributors I'd see a lot of products disappearing completely from many UK retailers and, bizarrely, prices for some might rise due to scarcity and costs of individual shipping.

Of course, not all distributors are as good as others. Rather than getting rid of them I'd much prefer to see the better ones taking over more stock lines
[/quote]

I realise there are specialists out there who manage a brand in the UK, but some distributors are basically just another bill to pay and a middleman. The store has to make profit, the distributor has to make profit, and the manufacturer has to obviously make profit.

Some distributors will be brilliant, some will just store and sell.

[molan]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1394367414' post='2390668']


I realise there are specialists out there who manage a brand in the UK, but some distributors are basically just another bill to pay and a middleman. The store has to make profit, the distributor has to make profit, and the manufacturer has to obviously make profit.

Some distributors will be brilliant, some will just store and sell.
[/quote]

Based on personal experience I think if there wasn't a distributor for Mesa then their cabs wouldn't be available in the UK at all

[skychaserhigh]

There wasn't anything wrong with my Streamliner so to speak and I used it for 2.5 years with no trouble at all. I just started using my older non class D amps again and decided I liked the sound of them better. Streamliner is still a good amp though.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1394367598' post='2390674']
Based on personal experience I think if there wasn't a distributor for Mesa then their cabs wouldn't be available in the UK at all
[/quote]

More than likely! I'd be interested in a Walkabout or Prodigy if they were a little more 'usually' priced (e.g. how a USA price would normally be reflected over here).

[chris_b]

Yeah, let's pretend the 6000 miles and different tax regimes don't exist.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1394373155' post='2390751']
Yeah, let's pretend the 6000 miles and different tax regimes don't exist.
[/quote]

Have you carefully looked at how much more Mesa gear is over here? I'm not alone in thinking this, and I've always spent a fortune on USA made gear (or gear from US companies that may be made elsewhere).

It isn't all USA products (or any overseas product), its that [b]certain[/b] products have a dramatic difference in price compared to the US, and some don't.

I for one do not splash out £1500-£2000 without thinking about it.

[chris_b]

I bought a brand new 400+ in the late 90's so I know all about Mesa Boogie; the prices, the company and their products.

They're handmade. Mine didn't come off a shelf, it was made to order. They are very good and they sell at their price point. Anything imported from the US is going to have an addition cost comprising transport, tax and currency exchange.

They are what they are. Deal with it.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1394389250' post='2390921']
They are what they are. Deal with it.
[/quote]

No need to be so dismissive...?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1394389250' post='2390921']
I bought a brand new 400+ in the late 90's so I know all about Mesa Boogie; the prices, the company and their products.

They're handmade. Mine didn't come off a shelf, it was made to order. They are very good and they sell at their price point. Anything imported from the US is going to have an addition cost comprising transport, tax and currency exchange.

They are what they are. Deal with it.
[/quote]

Great for you. No need to have that attitude towards another person's opinion.

The fact that you think those that share my opinion don't realise how importing products work is just bizarre.

I must have hit a nerve.

[Dingus]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394270147' post='2389682']
I know. But every time I carry my SL100, I can feel my innie becoming an outie. And not for the first time.
[/quote]

Is this your way of telling us you are pregnant ( again)? I'm confused, but congratulations anyway!

[discreet]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1394479276' post='2391781']
Is this your way of telling us you are pregnant (again)? I'm confused, but congratulations anyway!
[/quote]

Thank you. I'm actually pregnant with horror at the thought of anything bad happening to my hernia repair job!
I really don't want to go through that again - hence the micro amp option.

[Dingus]

I've tried a few GB amps, including the Streamliner, and I must confess I didn't like the sound of any of them one little bit. I found them artificial sounding with an unpleasant hardness to the sound. If you try EQing them for a warmer tone they just start to sound congested. I find the same problem with a lot of modern compact and lightweight amp designs. They are portable, but ultimately they sound like the compromise they are . They all seem to lack a natural euphonic warmth and try( and fail_) to compensate for that artificially. The best I have auditioned so far has been the Aguilar Tone Hammer. Lightweight cabs don't sound good to me either.

[Dingus]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394479485' post='2391787']
Thank you. I'm actually pregnant with horror at the thought of anything bad happening to my hernia repair job!
I really don't want to go through that again - hence the micro amp option.
[/quote]


That's a relief, Mark. I don't think you would bear up well to the pain of childbirth.

GK are always great -sounding amps to my ears.

[Dingus]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1394363466' post='2390608']
I've found there's a few amps that sound great in a store or home environment but don't quite cut it live. Personally I've found the Streamliner, some of the Shuttle range and TC Electronics suffer from this.

All of them seem to suck the life out of a bass at volume with a live band. I think some of this is definitely a lack of mids in he core tone. At home I don't want the mids slapping me in the face and they can sound harsh and abrasive so a mid-cut seems to smooth things over and creates a smoother tone.

However, get in front of a loud band and, for me, it's all about those mids. Getting them right makes so much difference to my personal enjoyment of live gigging and that's the reason I've moved GB and TC gear so quickly because I really didn't enjoy using them live
[/quote]

Exactly this. ^

Edited March 10, 2014 by Dingus

[Dingus]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1394367414' post='2390668']
I realise there are specialists out there who manage a brand in the UK, but some distributors are basically just another bill to pay and a middleman. The store has to make profit, the distributor has to make profit, and the manufacturer has to obviously make profit.

Some distributors will be brilliant, some will just store and sell.
[/quote]
[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1394371973' post='2390735']
More than likely! I'd be interested in a Walkabout or Prodigy if they were a little more 'usually' priced (e.g. how a USA price would normally be reflected over here).
[/quote]
[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1394373155' post='2390751']
Yeah, let's pretend the 6000 miles and different tax regimes don't exist.
[/quote]
[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1394386300' post='2390883']
Have you carefully looked at how much more Mesa gear is over here? I'm not alone in thinking this, and I've always spent a fortune on USA made gear (or gear from US companies that may be made elsewhere).

It isn't all USA products (or any overseas product), its that [b]certain[/b] products have a dramatic difference in price compared to the US, and some don't.

I for one do not splash out £1500-£2000 without thinking about it.
[/quote]
[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1394389250' post='2390921']
I bought a brand new 400+ in the late 90's so I know all about Mesa Boogie; the prices, the company and their products.

They're handmade. Mine didn't come off a shelf, it was made to order. They are very good and they sell at their price point. Anything imported from the US is going to have an addition cost comprising transport, tax and currency exchange.

They are what they are. Deal with it.
[/quote]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Reluctant as I am to get involved in any rows, however bizarre and unnecessary in nature, I have to say that , expensive as they undoubtedly are, Mesa Boogie products are not [/font][/color][i]necessarily[/i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] grotesquely overpriced in the U.K , and even if the distribution were to change or be handled directly by Mesa themselves then it is highly unlikely that the retail price to the consumer would fall significantly. A change to direct distribution would most likely mean bigger profits for the manufacturer , not cheaper prices for the public.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Not least of all, Mesa would be undermining their hard-won prestige as a brand by lowering their prices. It makes no sense to diminish both your profit margins and your identity as an exclusive aspirational product. Goods are priced to markets rather than to what is objectively "fair", and there is no concrete proof that Mesa would sell significantly more product if they lowered the U.K price by ten or even twenty percent, and certainly not enough more to make up for the price reduction . Mesa will, quite justifiably, always try and extract the maximum price from any given market that they can, for obvious reasons.They are a legendary brand, and, conspicuously, they have, to the best of my knowledge at least, ,never compromised their prestige with offshore manufacturing to make a quick buck like so many of their rivals have done. They are one of the few brands that are still 100% made in the USA , and If you want to buy into a brand like that it will always cost you a bit more than their lesser rivals. Quality ( and the perception of quality) does cost.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This is old ground, but it is folly to look at retail prices in the USA and directly compare them to the U.K then feel miffed . There are a number of things to consider when assessing relative value. Yes, you can get better value for money buying U.K- made equipment, but that is little consolation if you can't get what you really want buying domestic-made gear. The retail prices in America appear enticing compared to the U.K, but they have a culture of low taxation and high self-reliance, so the money you save on amps and basses you had better put by for a rainy day , your next medical bill or your elderly parents prescription charges.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Yes, you are paying more in the U.K in real terms than you would in USA, but that is the nature of imported goods, and then again, it's not as much difference as it may first appear if you make an informed literal translation of costs. Look at it this way: in terms of goods and services you can buy in the USA for a dollar practically what you can buy for a pound in the U.K, so a thousand dollars for an amp in America deprives the consumer of the same spending power as a thousand pounds does in the U.K . The exchange rate between sterling and the dollar is no indication of the relative purchasing power of the two currencies in their own respective countries. What some folks are [/font][/color][i]really[/i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] getting upset about is the higher standard of living in the USA, and that is a different issue, and bit too much of a disparity to expect Mesa Boogie to address.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Like I said already, I'm not taking sides in any rows or bashing anybodies opinion, but I just want to make the point that Mesa Boogie are one of music equipments "Rolls Royce" brands , and those kind of goods always tend to cost that bit more than equivalent goods from slightly lesser brands . Being able to charge more is part of the[/font][/color][i] raison d'etre [/i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]of such companies as Mesa Boogie. At the heart of their success, however, is the fact that they make bloody great amps. They are dear, but they are also that bit more appealing than most other brands. In the interest of balance, like I already said, you can get the best value for your money buying British, but that basically means Ashdown , Trace Elliot, and precious few others. Maybe Glockenklang would be the only European/ EC equivalent to Mesa Boogie?[/font][/color]

Edited March 10, 2014 by Dingus