smaz Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 So this week I'm finally growing up & moving out of home and in with the girlfriend. She got a quote for insuring most of my gear (5 basses, an amp & cab) on top of her existing insurance at around £10 which was reasonable. This covers them outside of the house too, which was important to me. However they haven't asked for any specifics about the basses - serial numbers, year of manufacture, receipts or valuations - just my short description & rough valuation (i.e. Fender Jazz £1500, Fender Precision £1000 etc.). Is this normal? I don't want to go to make a claim and have problems. The insurance is with Legal & General, if that matters. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Check that the amount of cover outside the house is adequate - e.g. the total value may be covered inside the house but the 'all risks' cover may be less. Might not be a problem if you don't take your 5 basses out at the same time, but double check to be sure. I'm not surprised they've not asked for specific info, but if you ever need to claim you'll need proof of ownership. If you have receipts then keep them safe and serial numbers as well, as they will help to prove what type of 'fender bass' you have, which will be important when buying an exact replacement. Photographs of you playing each bass would also be helpful to help prove your ownership in the event of a claim. But do check the policy very carefully for exclusions. A home policy probably won't cover any 'commercial' situations, so a paid gig would not be covered. Also, if gear is left in a car and is visible then it may not be covered either. If there is any doubt, write a letter to the insurance company describing exactly what cover you require and ask them to confirm that the policy is suitable for your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyvee Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I would read the small print. You will mostly likely find that your gear will not be covered for use at gigs. When I set up home I specifically asked the question and was told no I would not be covered if I used the instruments for doing public performances or gigs but if for example I was playing at for example for the odd family wedding for free then it would be fine. I think it would be a good idea to speak with them directly as probably don't think they will be used for gigs. Have you checked out specific musical instrument insurance for your gear? That will give you the best cover. Jazzyvee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burno70 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 The problem with music gear specific insurance is that there are so many exclusion. I was with Music Guard for a few years but then decided it just wasn't worth it - gear cannot be visible in a vehicle - which rules theft from most cars out. Theft from a place outside the home was only covered if your are in the room that the the gear was stolen from. So if you're at a gig and take a leak and some turd nicked your bass from the side of the stage - no cover. Also, storage rooms outside the home were only covered if they had a mortis lock - so the band's lockup, locked with a padlock at the rehearsal studios, wasn't covered. Might have changed from 5 or so years ago, but it didn't give me any peace of mind at all and didn't seem worth having in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Wow - I didn't realise they were that picky. I've never bothered with insurance because I never leave gear unattended in a car and I don't leave the venue when we're gigging so it's pretty easy to keep an eye on everything. On that basis the risk of any theft seems pretty small to me so I don't bother insuring for it. Besides, the money I've saved over 20-30 years would easily pay for a new bass should the worst ever happen. I guess it all depends on how nervous people feel about having stuff stolen or damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 The other thing to remember if you're gigging is that most music instrument insurance will also give you a good level of public liability insurance as well. It's unlikely you home contents would provide that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt P Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 i'll echo what others have said about reading the small print, my wife phoned up to check what our cover was because i was going to start being paid for gigs, the broker was very nice and said that he would check our policy and get back to us, he phoned back about 30 minutres later to tell us that our insurer had cancelled our policy! as i was being paid they counted that as a part-time occupation and they didn't cover musicians so that was it! the broker got it all sorted very quickly with a new insurance company and i got seperate insurance for all my gear for gigging. we actually saved a bit when the broker sorted the new policy as it came out about 40 quid less than our previous insurer Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 [quote name='Matt P' timestamp='1394454154' post='2391425'] i'll echo what others have said about reading the small print, my wife phoned up to check what our cover was because i was going to start being paid for gigs, the broker was very nice and said that he would check our policy and get back to us, he phoned back about 30 minutres later to tell us that our insurer had cancelled our policy! as i was being paid they counted that as a part-time occupation and they didn't cover musicians so that was it! [/quote] A good example of why it's important to make full disclosures to insurance companies and clarify (in writing) anything you're unsure about. I had a similar sort of thing last year when buying travel insurance for FF junior on a trip around Europe. It was a 3-week trip (no problem) but because TWO of the days were for a sports competition some of the insurers would not cover him because the trip was not WHOLLY for holiday/pleasure. I couldn't even get them to cover him for everything [u]except [/u]those two days, it had to be all or nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 If you've got cheap instruments you can take a risk on the cover, but you don't. I wouldn't leave it to chance on what gets said in a phone call. They can change the rules at any time and you'll have to re-read the small print everytime any booklet comes in with some "minor" changes. I'd go and get a quote for a proper policy. Allianz are good and well respected. http://www.allianzmusicalinsurance.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaz Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Thanks for the responses guys! From them, I drew up a list of questions for the girlfriend to ask, one of which being about cover for paid gigs - they checked with the broker, and they wouldn't cover for that so they've said they won't cover it at all. Nevermind! I try to be very careful with my gear, especially in new venues or when loading/unloading. I try not to leave basses in the car unattended (I once took two hard cases in with me when I went for a meal with the other half!), I always carry them out last with me. As the gear is generally expensive though, I'd rather have cover - with my usual 2 basses, amp & cab gig setup I can quite easily be carting around £3ks worth of gear about - a lot to replace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 What? They won't even cover the gear while it is in the house? Shows how important it is to check these things. Musicians Union crops up here a lot for gear and liability insurance so might be checking what they can offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I guess it's commercial equipment wherever it is not just when you're using it. You used to have to itemise anything in your house that was more than a £1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I insure my gear through my home insurance. What you need to check is for the restrictions. what is covered for theft from an unattended car, venue,etc & if covered for gigging. The cover you need is called Personal Belongings/Possessions cover & you need to check it covers gigging. This depends on the level of gigging (paid, etc) & whom you are insuring with. Some even allow musical instruments to be insured for gigging (classed as "tools"). I don't go through a broker & insure directly with the insurer (whom I work for). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 [quote name='burno70' timestamp='1394452985' post='2391409'] The problem with music gear specific insurance is that there are so many exclusion. I was with Music Guard for a few years but then decided it just wasn't worth it - gear cannot be visible in a vehicle - which rules theft from most cars out. Theft from a place outside the home was only covered if your are in the room that the the gear was stolen from. So if you're at a gig and take a leak and some turd nicked your bass from the side of the stage - no cover. Also, storage rooms outside the home were only covered if they had a mortis lock - so the band's lockup, locked with a padlock at the rehearsal studios, wasn't covered. Might have changed from 5 or so years ago, but it didn't give me any peace of mind at all and didn't seem worth having in the end. [/quote] Well reading that has eased my conscience - thanks! Music Guard had me jumping through hoops for months to get a valuation for my bass. they wouldn't take years of policies from E&L who I binned off. Nor would they take one from Vintage & Rare, Jaydee or Music Ground* as "qualified opinions" but neither would they tell me who they would accept. I gave up = their loss! * this one you can understand - but I doubt MG were clued up about MG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Try these.... http://www.newmooninsurance.com/musical/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1394468232' post='2391631'] I guess it's commercial equipment wherever it is not just when you're using it. [/quote] That's an interesting point and could mean that home insurance wouldn't cover [u]any[/u] 'music gear' at all if they find out the person concerned plays paid gigs, no matter that the gear in question is only rarely used for gigging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaz Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1394476051' post='2391730'] Try these.... [url="http://www.newmooninsurance.com/musical/index.php"]http://www.newmoonin...sical/index.php[/url] [/quote] A rough first quote of £43ish for a year, including unattended vehicle cover... If that covers gigs too, I'll be with them! Thanks for the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I used new moon a couple of years ago & you get PLI as standard all for a good rate. But I never had to claim, so can't say if they're any good. [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1394476854' post='2391737'] That's an interesting point and could mean that home insurance wouldn't cover [u]any[/u] 'music gear' at all if they find out the person concerned plays paid gigs, no matter that the gear in question is only rarely used for gigging. [/quote] It really depends on who you insure with. It always makes sense to check what the claim side of things is like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1394476854' post='2391737'] That's an interesting point and could mean that home insurance wouldn't cover [u]any[/u] 'music gear' at all if they find out the person concerned plays paid gigs, no matter that the gear in question is only rarely used for gigging. [/quote] Yes. They're not all the same. My brother had his bike stolen and tried to claim on his insurance and found out he wasn't covered. They said it was no extra cost to add the bikes for away from home. Seems a bit mad but I suspect they just need to know what they're covering so they can decide whether to charge extra or not. He asked them about music gear. They added all the band PA, and all the band's instruments plus public indemnity at gigs. That was all extra, but not as much as if he'd taken out a specialist separate insurance. As long as each item was under £2k they weren't interested in a list of gear. Edited March 11, 2014 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Currently looking at insurance for our contents at the minute. I want to include my gear of course. Never once been asked if I get paid and a lot haven't said they don't cover instruments/gear etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 [quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1394536199' post='2392291'] Never once been asked if I get paid and a lot haven't said they don't cover instruments/gear etc [/quote] Trouble is, the onus is on you to inform the insurance company of any 'material facts' and the standard advice is that if you are in any doubt about something then you should inform the insurer so they can clarify their position. In general, house insurance is for personal items and not for items used in connection with a business. Do paid gigs constitute 'a business'? - well who knows how each insurance company will treat such things, hence the advice to tell them. If you tell them and they still offer cover then fine. If you tell them and they decline cover then it might be annoying but not as annoying as having an actual claim refused because you didn't disclose a material fact - not to mention the waste of money paying premiums that won't actually cover you in the event of a claim. I'm no apologist for insurance companies, but fair's fair - they have to know what risks they are insuring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1394537462' post='2392324'] Trouble is, the onus is on you to inform the insurance company of any 'material facts' and the standard advice is that if you are in any doubt about something then you should inform the insurer so they can clarify their position. In general, house insurance is for personal items and not for items used in connection with a business. Do paid gigs constitute 'a business'? - well who knows how each insurance company will treat such things, hence the advice to tell them. If you tell them and they still offer cover then fine. If you tell them and they decline cover then it might be annoying but not as annoying as having an actual claim refused because you didn't disclose a material fact - not to mention the waste of money paying premiums that won't actually cover you in the event of a claim. I'm no apologist for insurance companies, but fair's fair - they have to know what risks they are insuring. [/quote] Correct. The onus is on the customer to make sure the insurer knows everything. In the event of a claim, you then have to provide proof (which isn't hard to do). IME business use is defined as a source of income. Under my insurance, as the gigs that I currently do don't amount to more than the cost of fuel, it's not deemed as business use. Phone the insurance company though, as each underwriter has different criteria. Let them know exactly what you want & see if they can accommodate. Make sure that they put it in a note saying what you asked for & what was offered, on the system (the insurance quote system that is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.