What does it mean to 'outgrow' cheap but good for the price basses?

[Annoying Twit]

I've seen a number of people state that they have outgrown cheap basses that they had, and have moved onto more expensive basses.

What causes someone to progress to a stage where a cheap bass is no longer 'enough', and they must have a more expensive bass. Expensive basses that I've played do have something extra over most cheaper basses. But if I compare, say a well set up Squier Affinity Precision to a USA Precision, while I can feel the difference, the affinity is still usable. One of the best feeling basses I've played was a Yamaha RBX374, and at the £230 or so price it was selling for, that's a reasonably cheap bass.

I can understand that players might get used to the feel of more expensive instruments, and it might be too much of a step back to then play a less refined instrument. If someone uses a very low action, then the quality of fretwork might mean the difference between massive fret buzz and little fret buzz. The pickups and electronics may sound better. But, I've also seen it said that the sound difference between (say) a USA Precision and a stock Westfield Precision might not be too much when they're in a mix with other instruments.

So, for any people here who feel that they couldn't live, or really don't want to live, with a cheaper but quality for the price, instrument, what are the factors that cause that to be true?

[Si600]

Dunno... I started with a very cheap 4 string that has been broken for parts and is now strewn across BC land, then I got a similarly cheap (£120 from the 'Bay in 2000) Aria 5er and now I've got a Fender P 5er which is so much more than I paid for the Aria it's ridiculous.

But...

Both the Aria and the Fender spend alternate weeks out for practice and "band" sessions so I'm swapping between cheap-but-good-for-the-price and proper expensive. Not sure that answers your question TBH

[Len_derby]

Whilst I agree with your basic premise,I think most of us are prone to the 'costs more must be better' way of thinking, there are some areas where it does make a significant difference.

My personal experience is with 5-strings. I started on an Epiphone Embassy. OK for the price, but the B string is pants. I moved up to a Yamaha TRB. The B string balances with the rest and the difference is startling compared to the Epi.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Len_derby

[JTUK]

Not sure you have defined 'better' with the examples you have used.
For me, I think you need to be looking at £1000 s/h to be in good bass territory and even then
it isn't a rock solid garauntee.
That isn't to say you can't luck out with £750 or be out of luck with £1500 spent, but the trick
is to know what you are looking for and what you can do with the bass and therefore take the luck out it
to quite a degree.

There are VERY few basses I would buy blind, tbh...

[gary mac]

I think there is most certainly an element of just wanting things that we perceive as being better and to a certain degree being able to afford to pay more as we progress through life.

My first car was a ten year old Mark 1 Ford Cortina, at the time I loved it, cherished it and thought it was all I needed in a car, may be it was but I wouldn't want it now.

[Horizontalste]

Maybe it's as simple as when you first start playing you feel that your ability doesn't warrant the large outlay for a 'quality' instrument.
Then as you grow as a player you feel that a reward for all the hours of practice is necessary.

[Dave Vader]

You "outgrow" your cheap instrument, buy a lot of expensive ones, playing lots all the time, then pick up that old cheap one again after a lot of years, and find you are more comfortable playing it, it sounds better, and you like it more. (It's a Sunn Mustang, it cost me £30 25 years ago, it has had a fair bit of work done on it as well)

You have now outgrown the expensive stuff, and cured your GAS forever.


True story, but YMMV IMHO etc. etc.

[FinnDave]

I have a US Standard Precision as my #1 bass at the moment, and a VM Squier Precision as back up. I often pick up the Squier at home if I want to try something out, and can definitely feel the difference between it and the Fender. Less smooth, less...something. Both basses have D'Addario flats, both set up the same, but they still don't feel the same. I play better on the Fender, I am sure of that.

(And I know my pic shows me with a Jazz, I still have that, just in a P bass phase at the moment!)

[CamdenRob]

To be honest, with the quality of new budget instruments being as it is these days and even better value for money on the cheaper end of the second hand market, I don't think you can really "outgrow" an instrument that would allow you to perform at the top level and sound great doing it... if you had the required ability to be a top player of course...

However expensive basses are beautiful things to own and like any other luxury goods they are desirable... GAS is a terrible mistress...

You don't [u]need[/u] a top end bass... In fact unless your playing bass to put food on the table you don't [u]need[/u] any bass at all... but shiny new things are nice to have

Edited March 12, 2014 by CamdenRob

[discreet]

[quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1394614076' post='2393224']
Maybe it's as simple as when you first start playing you feel that your ability doesn't warrant the large outlay for a 'quality' instrument.
Then as you grow as a player you feel that a reward for all the hours of practice is necessary.
[/quote]

Exactly this. It's all about feeling 'worthy' of a good instrument. You're a proper bass player now, right? You can't be seen in public with a crappy bass! Even though only 0.001% of those watching and listening will give a crap about what bass you're playing. They're much more likely to be thinking, 'Wow, that bloke really needs to get to the gym. Hide the buns!'

Edited March 12, 2014 by discreet

[Hobbayne]

Although I have an American Standard P Bass, my main go to bass is a bitsa. It is made up from a body and a great neck from ebay. Apparently from a Korean Squier.
I fitted it with a SPB1 pickup set it up, and it was amazing! Well balanced with an outstanding sound to it.
In an attempt to give it a vintage vibe I put on some chrome covers.
So a cheap bass wins in my experience.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394616501' post='2393262']
Even though only 0.001% of those watching and listening will give a crap about what bass you're playing.
[/quote]

or know the difference for that matter !

[thisnameistaken]

As someone else has already said, the quality of 'cheap' instruments is so much better than it was, say, 20 years ago, that even if you can't afford an expensive bass it's not the end of the world. This is in stark contrast to those poor souls who play acoustic stringed instruments, they pay!

[lemmywinks]

It's just personal preference, I gig cheapys nowadays and they're actually very nice basses with nice pickups and comfortable necks. I really dislike bass snobbery and the whole "not good enough for me" ethos you get, especially for covers/function band players because obviously we all [i]need[/i] a new custom bass to play Good Times right?

Up until last week (when I played a Hofner violin bass - horrible!) it had been years since I picked up a bass I couldn't happily gig, kids are lucky these days for sure.

[chriswareham]

[quote name='lemmywinks' timestamp='1394617634' post='2393284']
It's just personal preference, I gig cheapys nowadays and they're actually very nice basses with nice pickups and comfortable necks. I really dislike bass snobbery and the whole "not good enough for me" ethos you get, especially for covers/function band players because obviously we all [i]need[/i] a new custom bass to play Good Times right?
[/quote]

Same here - I now gig with a "cheapy" with a wonderful neck that I got for a couple of hundred quid from eBay. The only difference I can see between something like a Squier or lower end Yamaha and basses in the £1000 to £2000 bracket is the materials - the Squier Jazz I owned was as nice to play as a US Fender for example, while the cheaper materials made it lighter and easier to move about with. The only reason I stuck with a Stingray for fifteen years was because of the neck, which had dimensions I couldn't find on anything cheaper and the only time I regularly see high end or custom basses (Foderas and the like) is in covers or function bands cranking out standards to a small room!

[alembic1989]

What a great question....I think in most cases it's the dreaded GAS!
I am in a quandary right now...I've got a really cheap 6 er...all the tones are ones I like....the bass sounds really good...honestly..its a Harley Benton 6 ...it's my go to bass..over my very expensive exotic basses.....BUT there is something very beguiling about having a bit of spare cash...and seeking something with very pretty woods....mega pick ups...ultra preamps etc.....even though I've owned basses like that, and couldn't get a tone I liked, and spent an unhealthy amount of time knob twiddling......
The ' Harley' is brilliant....but I'm still browsing the for sale ads for a ' decent' 6 er.......go figure!!!

[discreet]

[quote name='alembic1989' timestamp='1394619763' post='2393318']
...spent an unhealthy amount of time knob twiddling.
[/quote]

I'm sure there's no-one here who hasn't done the same.

[TimR]

As you improve as a player you can feel limited by the instrument.

While cost is a factor in the quality of instruments, it's not automatically given that an expensive bass will be better than some of the newer basses.

However, a more experienced/better player will be able to tell the differences between basses and decide whether that difference warrants the extra spend.

[flyfisher]

More expensive = much better. Obvious, innit. Apple has built a whole business empire around that principle, so that proves it.

Bottom line - people like shiny new things and if they have some spare cash they'll look for ways to spend it, whatever their particular interests. Could be a 'better' car, suit, handbag, jewellery, whatever. I seriously doubt that an electric bass is the limiting factor in anyone's playing (assuming it's well set up), except perhaps for that elusive 'feel good' factor helping you to play better.

I reckon Pino could pick up my Fender MIJ precision and play anyone off the stage with it, but I wouldn't be any better if I played his bass.

Fact is, it's talent and ability that hold most people back, not their gear, but gear is something that's easy to change so that's what people do.

[Thor]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394616501' post='2393262']
They're much more likely to be thinking, 'Wow, that bloke really needs to get to the gym. Hide the buns!'
[/quote]

Hey! I resemble that remark!

[ML94]

I don't get the idea of having a 'backup' bass. Do you have one just incase the other one get's smashed or something lol ?
Myself, I have 2 basses, J and P because they make the different sounds I want. But I don't class them as backups ... Or should I get 1 now ....

[FinnDave]

I have a back up bass at gigs in case of string breakage or other failure. Back in the 80s I had a P bass that would occasionally cut out, so I always have a spare, tuned and ready to go, at the side of the stage. Just in case.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 19, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Annoying Twit]

Some interesting points here.

I don't have any particular beliefs about this myself, I just wanted to ask the question to see what other people thought. I've found, e.g. that a relatively cheap Fender Modern Player bass matched a much more expensive USA precision. However, that could be because there is only a small difference between them, or perhaps because I didn't notice the difference. Also, it could be that it's necessary to move to a high end hand made boutique bass to really notice the difference, and I've never played one of those. Also, I'm not sure what makes the expensive bass sufficiently 'better' to mean that someone has outgrown cheaper basses. Hence, I can't define 'better' in this situation.

How strong the B string is for a five or more string bass is an important characteristic. I've seen people say that cheap basses never have a good B string. But, I've also seen people say that some cheap basses have an excellent B string. A weak B string might be good enough for practice and learning, but probably not for performance and recording.

One thing that I do when I try a new bass is to try and play something I can't play yet. I haven't yet found a bass that would allow me to play significantly better than I can on the equipment that I have. Which agrees with the comments above (e.g. flyfisher) that it's technique that holds people back, rather than the equipment, much of the time.

Though, if the only difference between a high end bass and a cheapie is that the high end bass feels better, then that could easily be enough justification. If someone spends a lot of time using an instrument, then paying an extra grand could easily be worth it, even if the advantage is that the better bass just feels a bit nicer. For a professional musician, compare the cost of a boutique bass to a white an, or the tools required for many jobs. A boutique bass doesn't look expensive in comparison.



[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1394623040' post='2393360']
As you improve as a player you can feel limited by the instrument.
[/quote]

Limited in which way?

Edited March 12, 2014 by Annoying Twit

[Bilbo]

A couple of points from me, I think there is a tipping point where a starter instrument starts to hamper your improvement rather than aid it (I am thinking about general things like noisy pick-ups, poor fret work, machine heads that slip out of tune etc - whatever snags you can think of). Some get lucky and find cheap instrument that doesn't have the 'issues' that others do but, for a lot of us, there can be problems. My first bass (Hondo II Precision copy) had an action you could limbo under whilst the second, an Aria SB700, whilst a lot more playable, was a little noisy and it's knobs fell off.

More to the point, there can be a point where you need something more robust as you start gigging more frequently and that bass starts to become a tool rather than a toy, so to speak, and, like any other craftsman, a cheap screwdriver from a B&Q 'pack of ten' is no good if you are hammering away with it all day every day. I remember once playing a Epiphoen Joe Pass (essentially an ES175 copy) which was nice but, when I played a 175 (4 x the price), it was immediately obvious that it was a much better instrument; better tone, better intonation, quieter electronics etc). If you know enough to notice, it is time to up-grade.

I guess the day you 'out-grow' a cheap instrument is the day when you realise that the problems you are having with the cheap kit are problems.