Enhancing ash grain

[hamfist]

I've just bought an unfinished swamp ash precision body with beautiful grain figuring. I'm going to do a Danish oil and wax finish on it. However, due to the nice grain, I'd quite like to enhance the figuring with some dark dye somehow. I'm pretty sure this is possible but can't remember the details of where I read/saw about it.

Any ideas ?

Edited March 13, 2014 by hamfist

[Manton Customs]

You have a few options, if you want a smooth finish with no visible (edit: open) pores the best option is to grain fill with a black filler. Dyeing and sanding back is also an option but then you will still have a visible pores (black ones!), which can look cool if that is what you're after. It depends if you're after a more natural look where you can feel the grain, or a glass smooth one...if the latter grain fill .

Edited March 13, 2014 by Manton Customs

[ead]

This is the dirty ash finish on my ACG bass, but not sure how it's done. Maybe Alan could give you a steer?

http://www.acguitars.co.uk/acg_admin/wordpress/portfolio/2881/

[hamfist]

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1394746485' post='2394835']
This is the dirty ash finish on my ACG bass, but not sure how it's done. Maybe Alan could give you a steer?

http://www.acguitars.co.uk/acg_admin/wordpress/portfolio/2881/
[/quote]

Yes that is exactly the look I had in mind.

[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1394746304' post='2394829']
You have a few options, if you want a smooth finish with no visible (edit: open) pores the best option is to grain fill with a black filler. Dyeing and sanding back is also an option but then you will still have a visible pores (black ones!), which can look cool if that is what you're after. It depends if you're after a more natural look where you can feel the grain, or a glass smooth one...if the latter grain fill .
[/quote]

I'm not looking for a glass smooth look. I like the wood to have more of a natural feel to it.

So, simply dyeing with a dark dye and then sanding back should give me the dyed grain figuring (I guess where the dye is taken deeper) and lighter patches inbetween ? Would it be critical what type of wood dye I used ? I've used the Colron refined wood dyes (from B&Q) before on a mahogany P body before to good effect. I still have a load of it left in a dark mahogany colour, which might be nice to emphasize the grain of the ash.

[Manton Customs]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1394747192' post='2394854']
Yes that is exactly the look I had in mind.



I'm not looking for a glass smooth look. I like the wood to have more of a natural feel to it.

So, simply dyeing with a dark dye and then sanding back should give me the dyed grain figuring (I guess where the dye is taken deeper) and lighter patches inbetween ? Would it be critical what type of wood dye I used ? I've used the Colron refined wood dyes (from B&Q) before on a mahogany P body before to good effect. I still have a load of it left in a dark mahogany colour, which might be nice to emphasize the grain of the ash.
[/quote]

I cant speak for the bass posted as there may be a slightly different process there, (I suspect grain filling) though I have achieved very similar results by dyeing and sanding back. Sand up through the grits (raise the grain multiple times if you're using water based dye), apply dye to the whole body then sand back to a level where you want it. The black will stay in the deep grain but be removed from the surface. Experiment and see what you like, its easy to remove if you get it wrong .

[hamfist]

[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1394749767' post='2394906']


I cant speak for the bass posted as there may be a slightly different process there, (I suspect grain filling) though I have achieved very similar results by dyeing and sanding back. Sand up through the grits (raise the grain multiple times if you're using water based dye), apply dye to the whole body then sand back to a level where you want it. The black will stay in the deep grain but be removed from the surface. Experiment and see what you like, its easy to remove if you get it wrong .
[/quote]

THanks, much appreciated.

I think I will definitely have a go at this.

[ead]

I think there is some info on the dirty ash finish in the ACG threads in the Affliliates section but I can't locate it at the moment. My bass has a lacquer finish on top of the stain.

You can still feel the grain though.

Edited March 14, 2014 by ead

[geoffbyrne]

I've seen grain enhancement done by lightly charring(!!!!!) with a blowtorch & sanding back........very effective though.



G.

[hamfist]

[quote name='geoffbyrne' timestamp='1394839987' post='2395975']
I've seen grain enhancement done by lightly charring(!!!!!) with a blowtorch & sanding back........very effective though.
[/quote]

Oooooh Matron ! That sounds a bit high risk for me.

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1394803069' post='2395396']
I think there is some info on the dirty ash finish in the ACG threads in the Affliliates section but I can't locate it at the moment. My bass has a lacquer finish on top of the stain.

You can still feel the grain though.
[/quote]

I've had a thorough search through the threads and there's nothing there unfortunately. I would suspect that Alan will be keeping his specific process a bit of a secret. I would if I were him, as it seems pretty unique.

[Phil Starr]

I'd be pretty careful about this, Spirit based wood dyes penetrate a long way into timber and Ash is quite porous, you won't be able to sand it out. Practice on some scraps of ash first. If you don't have any Yandles have big boxes full of off-cuts which they might post to you http://www.yandles.co.uk/ .

[hamfist]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1394878638' post='2396172']
I'd be pretty careful about this, Spirit based wood dyes penetrate a long way into timber and Ash is quite porous, you won't be able to sand it out. Practice on some scraps of ash first. If you don't have any Yandles have big boxes full of off-cuts which they might post to you http://www.yandles.co.uk/ .
[/quote]

Thanks for the advice. The dye I have is water based, so hopefully won't penetrate too far.

I don't have any offcuts as I am buying the body ready made. I might well approach a local sawmill and see if they have anything suitable for me to practice on. I hadn't thought of that before.

[Phil Starr]

Water based will penetrate too, actually I think it's a mixture of water and alcohol but I don't suppose that is important..

I'm guessing at the finish you are after but it sounds as if you want something like a 'limed' effect but black not white. Lime is applied as a paste and because it is made of particles not dissolved pigment it won't penetrate but sit on the surface and in the grain. Then if you sand back it exposes the wood but leaves the white in the grain. Nowadays people use liming wax or even eggshell paint to achieve the effect. http://voices.yahoo.com/how-create-aged-effect-liming-wood-2549318.html You might be able to do this with black paint.

[Manton Customs]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1394958533' post='2396993']
Water based will penetrate too, actually I think it's a mixture of water and alcohol but I don't suppose that is important..

I'm guessing at the finish you are after but it sounds as if you want something like a 'limed' effect but black not white. Lime is applied as a paste and because it is made of particles not dissolved pigment it won't penetrate but sit on the surface and in the grain. Then if you sand back it exposes the wood but leaves the white in the grain. Nowadays people use liming wax or even eggshell paint to achieve the effect. [url="http://voices.yahoo.com/how-create-aged-effect-liming-wood-2549318.html"]http://voices.yahoo....od-2549318.html[/url] You might be able to do this with black paint.
[/quote]

Actually it won't penertrate deeply on the surface, it will penertrate deep into the grain and end grain but a quick sand back (even with 400) will easily remove it from the surface. This is a common procedure on working with a lot of woods. Firstly, applying a coat of dye and then sanding it off to leave it only in the grain, after which applying a second final coat. It works especially well on quilted and flamed Maple to "pop" the grain.

Post number 3 above gives an example of what we are talking about. Whether that was done with dye or filler I don't know but both will work. If you take a look at my website "The Immortal" looked just like this before having its final coat. Trying on scrap is a good idea!

Edited March 16, 2014 by Manton Customs