Playing with a Pick - looking for advice

[tedmanzie]

IMO the most difficult thing to grasp (ha!) when starting with a pick is how to hold it. All the other things like weight and size are easy to change later, but it is very important to get going with correct technique as it will be very difficult to correct a bad hold. The most natural, [i][b]but incorrect[/b][/i], way to hold it is like you are pinching it between your thumb and first finger. The correct way to hold it is with the side of your first finger and thumb, like these pics show:

[bobbass4k]

Picks have a very special property. When unobserved they can create micro-singularities, the gravitational pull then attracts the pick through the singularity and into the nth-dimensional nega-universe from which all picks originate. There is no way to reverse or mitigate this effect. If you take your eyes off a pick, it [i]will[/i] disappear for ever. The only effective means of combating this is to buy what we scientists refer to as a "s**t-ton" of them.

[discreet]

[quote name='tedmanzie' timestamp='1394914104' post='2396708']
IMO the most difficult thing to grasp (ha!) when starting with a pick is how to hold it.
[/quote]

This is true. Over the years I've developed a technique where I just have the very point of the pick visible, and actually pluck the strings with the side of my thumb and the pick simultaneously. Varying this can give you more or less attack as necessary, and can also sound like fingerstyle if favouring the thumb slightly more than the pick... you're welcome.

[discreet]

[quote name='bobbass4k' timestamp='1394915862' post='2396731']
The only effective means of combating this is to buy what we scientists refer to as a "s**t-ton" of them.
[/quote]

Quite - a quantity often known to the layman as 'an arseful'.

[Coilte]

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1394912961' post='2396694']
I've been a pick player for 25 years, entirely without injury. In fact this is the first time I have ever come across someone even suggesting it.
[/quote]

Take a look at the "Talk Bass" link I posted in post #4.

[KingBollock]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1394917049' post='2396753']


Take a look at the "Talk Bass" link I posted in post #4.
[/quote]
Ok, well, I read the first page (I might read the other 10 pages if I find time) and I'm not convinced by his "If you don't play like Carol Kaye you [i]will[/i] get CTS!" attitude. And half of those saying he is correct confess to not using a pick. It sounds like the equivalent of telling boys that if they masturbate they will go blind, just because masturbation is seen as "wrong".

Having said this I will mention my technique, such as it is. I have a weak right wrist anyway, from years of weight training a long time ago and an accident that chipped my scaphoid when I was a kid, but I have never, ever experienced pain in my right hand or thumb while playing Bass or any other instrument. My left thumb is another matter but that was due to mishaps that happened before I took up the Bass.

I have used a thick, 3mm, pick, as the chap suggests, for over 20 years, and I don't always anchor my hand. I do palm mute and have had problems with proud saddle screws, but that was easily sorted. I don't always play by the bridge, either, more often playing almost over the P pick-up position and often straying towards the neck; I will do this throughout a song if I feel the need to change the sound in that way. I also play quite lightly, letting the Bass and amp do the work. I very rarely use just downstrokes and I am able to get the same amount of attack from an upstroke as a downstroke. The height of my Bass is lower when sitting than most because I have it dangling between my legs, rather than on my lap, and have the neck diagonal in a classical guitar position, I keep it at the same height when standing, too. So, it could be that I have averted injury by unconsciously using a safer technique.

I could believe that staying in one place and doing the same motion over and over again might cause problems eventually, but I feel as though this would be more common knowledge among Bass players. But it could be that it isn't talked about for the same reason no one ever talks about the correct way to w***, it's wrong so shouldn't be mentioned...

Edited March 15, 2014 by KingBollock

[alyctes]

I have heard that originally bass-player's picks were made of leather, and basses were designed for playing with leather picks. I don't know how true this is. I do know I've got some leather picks, and that I can't play with them any more than I can with plastic picks...

[discreet]

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1394920166' post='2396793']
...sounds like the equivalent of telling boys that if they masturbate they will go blind...
[/quote]

Who said that?

[Dingus]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1394911004' post='2396656']
It's funny how us pick players don't have a go at finger players for looking unmanly etc. Very boring.
[/quote]

I play exclusively with my fingers and I am indeed very unmanly .In fact, I am regularly mistaken for a woman or, less flatteringly, a transexual who isn't trying hard enough. Coincidence?

Edited March 15, 2014 by Dingus

[Dingus]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394920856' post='2396802']
Who said that?
[/quote]

Your guide dog?

[KingBollock]

I got to the third page (of 24, don't know where I got the idea there were only 11) of the TalkBass thread and had to chuckle when the chap banging on about the Carol Kaye method confessed to having been banned from her forum.

Not relevant I know, but it made me chuckle.

[Paul S]

I have always played with a pick but for the last year or so have been trying to teach myself playing with fingers - so the other way around to what you are doing, really.

Aside from the choices of size, shape and material, I think most of the subtleties and nuances of pick playing only come with practice and experimenting. How hard you grip the pick, how much of it protrudes, the angle of attack, whether you hit the string or kind of roll the edge of the pick off it for a gentler note, using the fat end not the sharp end, varying the position along the string, muting at the bridge, playing dead notes - all need to be found and experimented with. Just the same as all the various nuances of playing with fingers, really - both techniques have a lot to them but really need to discovered.

One thing I find is that sometimes I do think it is more appropriate to strike a string using movement of my whole arm, not just from the wrist, and when doing so the movement rubs my lower forearm above the wrist on the edge of the body when playing with a pick, especially on slab bodied basses, so always wear wear a double length wrist band on that arm.

And I use flats - must be the uncoolest player ever.

[Coilte]

Lots of people are using the terms "correct" and "incorrect" with regards playing with a pick. There is no definitive technique, but there are tried and (generally) trusted ones. Carol Kaye has being playing bass with a pick for fifty plus years and has never suffered from doing so. The problem with CTS and RSI is that they take a long time to show themselves. So just because a person has being playing in a certain way, and is not experiencing problems [i]NOW[/i], does not mean that they wont in time.

IMO a technique which delivers fifty years of injury free playing (in her early days she played for up to fifteen hours a day), while not guarenteed, is a safe bet.

While it is neither correct or incorrect, it's track record should at least convince people to give it some consideration.

[xgsjx]

The best advice that I could give is find a pick that you're comfortable with (I like any between .60 & 1.25mm, preferring .73mm), hold it between your thumb & index finger & practice.
Then practice some more. Start with one string playing something like "With or without you", then add the next string ("I feel love" is one suggestion for this). Once you get the hang of that, practice string skipping by playing octave jumps (a bit of disco?).
Like anything, you can't expect to pick it up & instantly be good, so have fun when you practice.

Edited March 16, 2014 by xgsjx

[lojo]

I find green or blue big triangle ones the easiest, .88 or 1.0

Oddly , I find it really hard to play with a pick practicing at home, but once with a band and the drummer, can really dig in and keep it solid.

[Grangur]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1394965201' post='2397082']
I find green or blue big triangle ones the easiest, .88 or 1.0

Oddly , I find it really hard to play with a pick practicing at home, but once with a band and the drummer, can really dig in and keep it solid.
[/quote]
Hey! THAT's what I was wating to hear!! I can't play with a pick to save my life and now I know why. I'm not in a band!!!
So, THAT's what I've been doing wrong all this time.

[Billy Apple]

There're no rules here. I'm a life long pick player, and there is no prescribed technique other than you find the one that is good for you and you hold it in a manner most comfortable for you. There is no magic that stops you dropping them, glue or otherwise. We all drop them from time to time.

At least in looking for the one for you, it wont break the bank. Unlike the quest for a bass and amp.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1394966826' post='2397103']
At least in looking for the one for you, it wont break the bank. Unlike the quest for a bass and amp.
[/quote]

Don't be too sure about that...

http://www.guitarplectrums.co.uk/treasure-tones-9ct-gold-guitar-plectrums

[discreet]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1394968022' post='2397116']
Don't be too sure about that... [url="http://www.guitarplectrums.co.uk/treasure-tones-9ct-gold-guitar-plectrums"]http://www.guitarple...uitar-plectrums[/url]
[/quote]

Ha! Roll up if you've more money than sense!
That includes me actually, but I've only got £3.99.

[Coilte]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1394968022' post='2397116']
Don't be too sure about that...

[url="http://www.guitarplectrums.co.uk/treasure-tones-9ct-gold-guitar-plectrums"]http://www.guitarple...uitar-plectrums[/url]
[/quote]

Are they good for metal ?

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1394970860' post='2397160']
Are they good for metal ?
[/quote]
Nah, you need these for metal (including black metal)...

http://www.guitarplectrums.co.uk/fusion-tones-variety-pack

[Coilte]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1394971123' post='2397166']
Nah, you need these for metal (including black metal)...

[url="http://www.guitarplectrums.co.uk/fusion-tones-variety-pack"]http://www.guitarple...es-variety-pack[/url]
[/quote]


Ah !!.. I see.....The "cheapies" will do for metal.

[steve-bbb]

all i can add is that im rather surprised that all pick players arent left handed

[BigRedX]

As others have said go to your local musical instrument store and buy a good selection of picks in different shapes, sizes, thicknesses and materials. Then have fun finding out which works for you the best. IME it's important to find one that's not only comfortable to us but also produces the right sound within the band context. Like any other item in the signal chain what sounds good on its own doesn't always work in the band mix. For instance, hard picks with lots of attack sound great on the bass until you play with a Strat player using a cleanish sound, at which point the all that lovely click and attack completely disappears.

My personal favourite pick doesn't sound that much different to my finger-style playing. It has a harder attack, but that's about it. For me the choice of pick or fingers is mostly about feel.

Edited March 16, 2014 by BigRedX

[Dingus]

Prompted partly by this thread I had another go at playing with a pick last night ( big green Dunlop one) and I just cant do it. I thought I would try and knock out some Police songs to amuse myself during Match Of The Day, and the results were awful ( not unlike Sting's recent solo records in that respect). Firstly, the pick is constantly moving in my grip and threatening to fall out of my grasp, and just as bad, the notes seem to arrive at fractionally different times between my picking and left hand fingering. Playing with pick seems to make me go out of sync. If I use my nail like a pick, I am fine, but give me a pick and I sound like a beginner again, which I suppose is what I am.

I was brought up by my bass teacher to believe that bass players whom played with a pick were mentally sub-normal , and in many cases that is actually true, but at the same time, there are so many great pick players and so many songs where you just can't play them properly without using a pick that nowadays I would dearly love to be able to use one. Most other finger players seem to have far less trouble switching over to a pick than I do, but maybe because I have never owned a six string guitar that is one reason why it all feels so alien to me.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Dingus