SubsonicSimpleton Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Take a road trip to bassdirect in warwick and try some stuff out, they have a really good selection of gear. You could even take your bassman amp head for proper A/B comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassnut62 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 [quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1395228337' post='2399891'] Take a road trip to bassdirect in warwick and try some stuff out, they have a really good selection of gear. You could even take your bassman amp head for proper A/B comparison. [/quote] thanks for that suggestion....there are no worthwhile bass rig suppliers in Nottingham. any other suggestions within reasonable range of Nottingham? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Yes, they can. You ought to be able to mould the sound you need using a modern class D amp with option effects pedals. There is no rationale for using a vintage and / or big and / or valve bass amp any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 in contrast to the above post, I like the compression of valves a lot, it's the single point of difference for me between valve and solid state. I've tried replicating it and the closest I've come is with a trace dual band compressor but even that wasn't the whole deal. I'd say keep the Bassman 135 and use it for guitar with a 12" guitar cab. Its good enough for Ted Nugent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 [quote name='Bassnut62' timestamp='1395228815' post='2399899'] thanks for that suggestion....there are no worthwhile bass rig suppliers in Nottingham. any other suggestions within reasonable range of Nottingham? [/quote] Come to the Midlands Bass bash (details in my sig) as there will be loads of rigs to try/hear there IMO, modern bass amps do modern tones best, and old-school valve does valve sounds best. I've tried to get the old valve tone from loads of different modern amps, and many are very close, but ultimately they lack that valve power section compression/sag/bounce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassnut62 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 [quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1395230602' post='2399927'] in contrast to the above post, I like the compression of valves a lot, it's the single point of difference for me between valve and solid state. I've tried replicating it and the closest I've come is with a trace dual band compressor but even that wasn't the whole deal. I'd say keep the Bassman 135 and use it for guitar with a 12" guitar cab. Its good enough for Ted Nugent. [/quote] Spookily, I have used it for guitar and it does sound great and stays clean at any volume; but it is way more volume than I will ever need on guitar, plus I have a few nice all valve vintage guitar combos that cover guitar needs for me. In fact the guy who wants it, is a guitarist and already bought my 2x15 cab for same purpose. Anyway, I've agreed to sell it to him for a top and fair price, as he really really really wants it and it will go back to be with its 2x15 cab where it probably belongs. My instinct too is that you can't get a modern bass rig to produce that wonderful all valve bounce, with nay kind of trickery and compression, because most of it is in the power stage not the pre-stage; but I reckon there must be plenty of great but different things in modern bass rigs too.....so I'll be on a new journey of discovery if/when ever I start playing bass again. At this rate, I may even start selling some of my basses....I hope not though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassnut62 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1395231186' post='2399935'] Come to the Midlands Bass bash (details in my sig) as there will be loads of rigs to try/hear there IMO, modern bass amps do modern tones best, and old-school valve does valve sounds best. I've tried to get the old valve tone from loads of different modern amps, and many are very close, but ultimately they lack that valve power section compression/sag/bounce. [/quote] just what I thought.....thanks for bass bash details too; i'll try and make it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 [quote name='Bassnut62' timestamp='1395231472' post='2399942'] Spookily, I have used it for guitar and it does sound great and stays clean at any volume; but it is way more volume than I will ever need on guitar, plus I have a few nice all valve vintage guitar combos that cover guitar needs for me. [/quote] OK but taking a couple of power valves out is also an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) If solid state amps had come first then valve amps would probably never have happened and if they had we'd probably be asking "can a valve amp sound as good as a vintage transistor one?" Edited March 19, 2014 by Count Bassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Sound as good? Yes, sometimes even better. 'Sound as good' really meaning 'look as cool' to retro-hipsters? No chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Define 'good'... I dunno, I've always been underwhelemd by all valve kit, horses for courses I suppose, or maybe the stuff I've tried wasnt really very good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 It also occurs to me that, just like old basses and guitars, you'll get some good old mature valve amps ..... and some knackered old bad ones. I guess the sound quality of valve amps - old and new - will be variable. On the other hand, I suspect that if I substituted my RH750 for someone else's - I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I so want to like the latest crop of micro heads, and my back would love me for doing so, but somehow the Class D stuff just doesn't have the heft of a big power transformer. I don't think this is particularly a transistor vs valve thing, I think its a choice of power supply thing. As to whether an audience can hear/discern/be bothered by the difference is of little import, I can hear/feel it and it doesn't work for me. There are some 'modern' amps that have heft (my SWR for one, and others include the Boogie M-Pulse and Walkabout heads, the Aguilar AG500 etc) but they are not in themselves lightweight heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) [quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1395246100' post='2400177'] I so want to like the latest crop of micro heads, and my back would love me for doing so, but somehow the Class D stuff just doesn't have the heft of a big power transformer. I don't think this is particularly a transistor vs valve thing, I think its a choice of power supply thing. As to whether an audience can hear/discern/be bothered by the difference is of little import, I can hear/feel it and it doesn't work for me. There are some 'modern' amps that have heft (my SWR for one, and others include the Boogie M-Pulse and Walkabout heads, the Aguilar AG500 etc) but they are not in themselves lightweight heads. [/quote] I don't think that there's anything inherent in class D or their power supplies to stop it having the grunt. Whether the designers cut corners on the specs to keep the costs down however, is a different matter. I believe that with a transformer supply you can overload it briefly without any dire consequences. The DC voltage will drop but the transformer will deliver a bit extra current to recharge the cappies, with out instantly blowing up. I think that transistors are less tolerant. You might therefore spec a 10 amp transformer system knowing that it will give you more for short bursts, where as a 10 amp switch mode supply (or indeed) switch mode output stage will not! - unless it's been specifically designed to do so. Having said that it might all be bullshit! Hey - I can say 'Bullshit' (and 'twat'). Edited March 19, 2014 by Count Bassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Haha, that twat just said bullshit ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassnut62 Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Well, after a sleepless night, thinking about the Bassman 135 head and having nightmares about never playing bass again, cos I sold my sound for money, I have decided I can't sell it. I tried it out again this morning when Mrs Bassnut went out (i.e. full throttle) with both bass and guitar and jumping the channels and it sounds so good, that I could not part with it. If/when I do start playing bass again in a band, I could experiment with new lighter gear and sell the Bassman then, if I find I can get a sound and feel I am happy with from modern gear. Thanks for all your excellent advice, which has given me a lot of good ideas to think about and some more valuable knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagegirl Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 i think it is no question of as good..they sound different. there is no rigth or wrong..it is just the question of your taste or not. there are beautiful sounding modern amps out there and as well lovely grandpas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Don't sell it. If you do you could always get a replica custom made by a company like MJW. Modern stuff can be fantastic if you look at the right kit; there are a few all valve heads on the market now that are as good as but different from the vintage gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 [quote name='Bassnut62' timestamp='1395150482' post='2399194'] Playing with a good all-valve amp and big cab sound feels v physical to me and I think I would really miss that. [/quote] As the owner of two decent valve rigs and of what I consider to be the opposite, a PJB Dalek rig, I think you've summed it up there. I sincerely wish the tube rigs were discernably different, but I think it comes down to knowing what's behind you on stage as much as it comes down to how it sounds. Yes, a big tube rig makes me play differently and there's a real joy in doing so that I don't get with SS rigs, but the difference is in a number of contextual factors more than it is in the sound (even down to the investment in transporting the bloody thing to gigs). This assumes the two rigs are of a similar quality and that you're not trying to get a driven/distorted tone, in which case valve heads win every time. Give me a tube rig any day though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Bass 65 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 My friend builds retro amps from scratch even to winding his own transformers, you can have Buddy Holly's/ Eddie Chochran's late 50s Fender Bassman, a Twin Reverb, Dual Showman etc all with new and better components.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamfist Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 [quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1395473719' post='2402788'] ..... and that you're not trying to get a driven/distorted tone, in which case valve heads win every time. [/quote] In contrast, my favourite bass overdrive and distortion sounds have always come from solid state units. Valve overdrive always seems a bit "flubby" and somehow lacking in attack for me. For guitar, I'll go with valve all day but for bass, it's SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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