Help needed (Serious) re Gigging Sound

[Papabull]

I need help……. if anyone can, please do and send me /pm your thoughts.

Basically I can't get a focused/balanced (eq'd)sound when i gig. Practising at low/mid volumes with a Gallien Kruger 15"combo I'm really happy but when playing with my band (17 piece Big Band playing non conventional material i.e. Funk, Latin, Steely Dan, and blues charts as opposed to Glen Miller etc) at high sound levels, my sound is unfocused, boomy and bass heavy. I play a 4 string Fender Jazz Deluxe into a 2x10 Mark Bass Combo (floor wedge). I keep the eq flat on the amp, position it away from walls and face it towards me rather than into the room. I record all sessions and am really fed up with the sound I get. Sound levels are on the high side (15 Blowing musicians- 5 saxs , 4 trumpets and 4 trombones create a BIG SOUND) but i find if if i eq the bass (John East retro pre amp) bright, things sound too brittle and edgy which effects my playing style.

i want a balanced, focused sound that is not too dominant or even worse Bass LITE. Playing style is normally finger style with occasional slap and pop.!!

Any thoughts gratefully received.

At my wits end

PB

[Cosmo Valdemar]

Have you tried adjusting the EQ on the amp? A little low mid boost can work wonders.
Maybe the amp just isn't up to the job. What wattage is it?

[wateroftyne]

It sounds like you might need more speakers....

[lemmywinks]

What does it sound like out front, a lot of the time you can have what you think is a bad sound but people in the audience will tell you it really kicks! I've heard recordings of our gigs and I sound tons better than I think I do even with no PA support.

Maybe some decent compression is in order, might help with getting that nice tight sound. Also maybe a Thumpinator to tame the excess boomy lows. If you're gigging on hollow stages with no carpet some sort of isolation platform might help too.

Edited March 19, 2014 by lemmywinks

[Papabull]

hi, its a 300w amp, sounds great on its own….. its in context it suffers !! Plenty of volume…. so i don't think i need a 4x10. will try and send a link for your thoughts….

[molan]

Definitely start with those mids. If it's booming at you then lose a little bass and tweak the mids on the combo (rather than on the East).

Low mids are the place to start but maybe some higher mids too if you're struggling to hear ourself.

A second 2x10 might be the answer but I'd work on the amp tone controls first.

Might be worth considering an Auralex, or similar, isolation platform to stop the low end booming through the floor.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='ThePapabull' timestamp='1395265141' post='2400537']
Plenty of volume…. so i don't think i need a 4x10.
[/quote]

Yeah, you might have volume, but... Is it indistinct? Does it lack authority? If so, then it sounds like you might need more speakers.

[Papabull]

hi lemmy…… yeah that happens a lot. Anyway maybe this link will give you an idea…….Thanks to this amazing bass community for your suggestions hand help… paul h
Please be CRITICAL.

[Papabull]

I,ve thought about the auralex thing. I guess i want a studio type sound but live…… lets not forget that it might be a crap technique and not much experience!!!!!

[Papabull]

http://youtu.be/hHzRfk3bBEs

[woodyratm]

Are you using PA support? I'd consider turning down gigs dont need to be loud.

That or boost mids, point cab at your head and/or uncouple the cab.

[wateroftyne]

Y'know, I know a YouTube clip is hardly representative of being in the room, but that's not at bad as I'd expected.

It sounds like a very lively room. Maybe it's just one of 'those' rooms that hates bass?

Or do you have this problem in a number of venues?

[Papabull]

2'25" is a prime example of my dilemma (in the above video) sound is from a go pro but is still bad!!

[krysh]

very well played. the band is a bit static for my taste, but that is my taste. regarding the sound, since I'm no fan of all other mb amps except the tte500 I'd recommend to try a different rig, after you have tried yours with a 4x10". if you double the number of speakers you will gain 3db but also get a bigger feel at the same volume. you really have to try some cabs and amps on your own. maybe a very clean amp like a glockenklang or epifani or GB shuttle might be your direction to try out since I always found the other markbass amps kind of muddy....

[Papabull]

Hi Woodyratm, gigs are inevitably loud ( but your point is good one) i can't exercise much control re volume. What does uncouple the cab mean….. I should explain I've only been playing bass for 2 years and am really a tenor/alto sax player at heart. (30 years) . I really enjoy practise and playing but this room is sending me around the BEND!!!!

[discreet]

Does the Markbass have VLE and VPF filters? And if so are you using them?

Edited March 19, 2014 by discreet

[Lozz196]

I also use Markbass and have found that getting an on-stage sound that I like ends up being very undefined, and boomy mush out front, whereas getting a middy, nasally, brittle sound on-stage that I don`t like translates in the mix out front into a great bassy sound that sits well, being neither underneath everything else, or too toppy. I get that by boosting the mids - for me using a Precision I boost upper-mids as P-basses have plenty enough lower-mids. I`d probably boost lower-mids with a Jazz bass though.

[woodyratm]

[quote name='ThePapabull' timestamp='1395266730' post='2400568']
Hi Woodyratm, gigs are inevitably loud ( but your point is good one) i can't exercise much control re volume. What does uncouple the cab mean….. I should explain I've only been playing bass for 2 years and am really a tenor/alto sax player at heart. (30 years) . I really enjoy practise and playing but this room is sending me around the BEND!!!!
[/quote]

Get it off the floor back in the day i used a beer crate thing.

You might be getting boomyness from the floor. Also try and get out front if you can. Might be sounding pants next to you but amazing in the crowd. (im on my phone so havent seen your vid)

[Papabull]

Thanks to KRYSH this seems to make sense to me….. interesting that u find mb muddy...

DISCREET……….. yes i use VLE and VPF but very moderately….

[HowieBass]

Have you tried lifting the cab to uncouple it from the floor?

EDIT: Just seen this has been mentioned a couple of posts back. Might be the answer!

Edited March 19, 2014 by HowieBass

[Papabull]

Thanks WOODYRATM next GIG in april I'm going to try just that. cheers paul

[discreet]

[quote name='ThePapabull' timestamp='1395267552' post='2400585']
DISCREET……….. yes i use VLE and VPF but very moderately….
[/quote]

Maybe try having the VPF off (fully anticlockwise) as even a mild mid-scoop will lessen your punch, especially in a big band.

[Papabull]

UNCOUPLING sounds interesting as this gig is on a wooden floor on the second floor of an 19th century building!!

Thanks of this

[Papabull]

thanks DISCREET for this too….. makes sense to me

[gjones]

Join the club. Bass is notoriously difficult to get a good sound for. Just ask any live sound engineer. It's because the sound of the bass guitar depends as much on the room as it does on your gear. If it's really sending you around the bend, my advice is to get a wireless system and stand out front while adjusting the EQ on your J Retro. You will probably find that the EQ settings that sound best from 30 ft away, sound crap while you're standing next to your bass but that's bass guitar for you. And in the end you want the best sound out front, not necessarily onstage.