Inventing bass lines

[dazza14]

I'm in an originals band playing reggae, punk and rock. We had a bit of a 'shake up' before Christmas when the singer and his wife split, this wouldn't normally be much of an issue but she had written 90% of the original songs (he wrote the music, she wrote lyrics) so when they split, she 'pulled' the songs. Meaning we as a band had to start writing our own stuff! This has worked out better than anyone would have foreseen with us all contributing with songs and us becoming tighter as a unit from it. But i'm finding that when new songs are introduced it's becoming more and more difficult for me to come up with bass lines that A) fit/suit the song and are interesting to play. I should point out that I've never had a lesson and I tend to stick to root notes and build a line from these, this is fine for my reggae playing because I grew up listening to reggae, ska and all that groovy stuff so that style of music is natural to me but for the rock stuff I really struggle and last night at practice, in jest, the lead guitarist called me "Mr. Root Note", which p*ssed me off somewhat. So, in short, i'm after advice for coming up with bass lines for rock songs. It's probably worth pointing out that my drummer is strictly punk and he struggles with any other style of playing, his reggae is ok but he tends to get 'carried away' at gigs and totally ruin the rhythm of those songs, something that makes me want to throttle him!!

[Highfox]

Nothing wrong with a root
Get some of the old 12 bar going or some blues scales, they nearly always help me out and get me going.
Someone like Simo from the Clash was very reggae influenced and transferred the groove to Rock.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Highfox

[xgsjx]

Listen to the vocal melody. Use the rhythm from it. In reggae, you might want to play just bits of the rhythm & harmonise rather than play unison.
Record the song with no bass & listen a few times until the bass line is in your mind.

[neepheid]

I'm a Lego brick bassist - most of my lines are born out of a few simple building blocks - arpeggiating the chords, pentatonic/blues scale, octaves, and I don't think anyone ever got shot for throwing a cheeky seventh in there. I don't consider what I'm doing to be clever, but it at least adds some flavour where appropriate. I don't think I've ever come up with what I would consider a timeless or classic riff - don't worry about it

Also sometimes the root is just fine. Interesting things can come from modifying how you play those root notes, either in terms of technique or rhythm. Got a subdued section in one of our songs and I just thud out the root notes with my thumb while palm muting. Two chords from the end I move my right hand into the normal fingerstyle position and play those last 8 notes normally with some vigour to signify that the subdued section is coming to an end (so the drummer knows "insert fill here").

I'm no expert (Been playing (properly) for about 6 years and I have had a few lessons) but I'm pretty happy with what I'm coming up with.

Edited March 21, 2014 by neepheid

[dazza14]

Good advice here, thank you very much. I think the 'worry' comes from the fact that the other members can pick up a new song almost instantly, the drummer does his thing, the singer sings and plays rhythm so his part is quite easy musically, the lead guitarist I've noticed will simply pick the individual notes from the chord leaving me to fill in the space but I have bad habits that I stick to, like scales, arpeggios and changing from finger to pick to thumb to get differing sounds, but his comment about being on the root note bugged me because it's something i'm sensitive about. I could chuck in some needless showy bits but I want to compliment the song and not ruin it by showing off... I leave that to the drummer and lead guitarist.

[neepheid]

[quote name='dazza14' timestamp='1395399584' post='2401974']
Good advice here, thank you very much. I think the 'worry' comes from the fact that the other members can pick up a new song almost instantly, the drummer does his thing, the singer sings and plays rhythm so his part is quite easy musically, the lead guitarist I've noticed will simply pick the individual notes from the chord leaving me to fill in the space but I have bad habits that I stick to, like scales, arpeggios and changing from finger to pick to thumb to get differing sounds, but his comment about being on the root note bugged me because it's something i'm sensitive about. I could chuck in some needless showy bits but I want to compliment the song and not ruin it by showing off... I leave that to the drummer and lead guitarist.
[/quote]

In my early playing days, whenever a new song was tried for the first time, I would have to ask what the chords were and write that down. I would then plonk out some root notes, go home, come up with something better then bring that to next band practice. Over time, the more I did that, the quicker I could do it until I was able to start coming up with stuff in the same band practice. The confidence just grew over time, there was no lightbulb moment. I am astonished when I look back at how far I've come along.

[Hobbayne]

I,m a bit of a musical Magpie. I borrow bits and peices from other songs and modify them to suit whatever I,m playing. I cover it well enough so that nobody guesses where it came from, and even get a few 'whoops!' from the guys.
That was how I learned. Know what the chords are what can fit over them.

[Coilte]

[quote name='dazza14' timestamp='1395399584' post='2401974']
but I have bad habits that I stick to, like scales, arpeggios
[/quote]

????

I would not call them bad habits. It's how you use them that counts. As has been mentioned, listen to some twelve bar blues. You should get some inspiration here. Also, even though you may not like jazz, learning some "walking" basics is a great way of learning bass lines for [i]all[/i] types of music.

Dave Marks has a series of lessons here, starting with the basics and building from there :


[url="http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dave+marks+walking+bass+lesson&sm=1"]http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dave+marks+walking+bass+lesson&sm=1[/url]

[HowieBass]

I'd normally find out which chords are being played and using the chord tones work out some nice progressions from those... so once you know those chord root notes then play with whatever else is available from those chords and I tend to look at these options as geometric shapes on the fretboard, like this lesson from Scott Devine http://youtu.be/VJNq4GVoy5I

[dazza14]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1395404048' post='2402065']
????

I would not call them bad habits. It's how you use them that counts. As has been mentioned, listen to some twelve bar blues. You should get some inspiration here. Also, even though you may not like jazz, learning some "walking" basics is a great way of learning bass lines for [i]all[/i] types of music.

Dave Marks has a series of lessons here, starting with the basics and building from there :


[url="http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dave+marks+walking+bass+lesson&sm=1"]http://www.youtube.c...ass+lesson&sm=1[/url]
[/quote]

By 'bad habits' I mean I tend to repeat where i'd go next on the fretboard, for example if I was playing in an 'A' i'd probably arpeggio through 'B,D to E' but this bores me because I do it on other songs, this could be a 'style' but i'd like to do new things if I can. I really like jazz so walking bass lines have helped massively in the past, even on punk songs we've played to fill in the gaps between whatever the guitar is doing, but, again I don't want to always play a walking bass line. There is some great advice, learning harmonising notes will be very helpful, so too playing the root only to work on them away from practice, I've taken to recording new songs so I can do just that.

[xgsjx]

Try using a scale, run or arpeggio & for the 1st note or 5, don't use the root. Try starting from the 3rd or 5th (or even the 9th) & run down/up/wobble about.

[Coilte]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1395414759' post='2402219']
Try using a scale, run or arpeggio & for the 1st note or 5, don't use the root. Try starting from the 3rd or 5th (or even the 9th) & run down/up/wobble about.
[/quote]

Good advice. Starting on something other than the root note can give a different "flavour" to the chord.

It may not always be appropriate, but knowing about inversions is well worth while.

OP, here is a link you could refer to from time to time :


[url="http://www.scribd.com/doc/2087887/a-comprehensive-chord-tone-system-for-mastering-the-bass-jeff-berlin"]http://www.scribd.com/doc/2087887/a-comprehensive-chord-tone-system-for-mastering-the-bass-jeff-berlin[/url]

[achknalligewelt]

In my experience, it's just practice. I have been creating basslines for original material (and rearranged covers) for, Christ, must be 20 years, and once you have a few tricks up your sleeve, you just get a feel for where might be a good place to start.

And that, by the way, is all it is. Root-noting along is a perfectly fine way to feel your way into a song, and for a guitarist to comment on it is pretty out of order. It's never finished, and you will refine the part, add bits, lose bits and then, I'd have thought, even then only have a framework set for the line. I pretty much never play the same thing twice, unless it's an important riff, and I only come up with them after weeks/months/years of trying and discarding things.

As for what the bits are, I take a modular approach to composition. This chord might enjoy the t-shaped sliding riff from Drive My Car, or this one could benefit from a run up to the 5th, then down an octave, like something I once heard Mike Mills do. They all have names, and I have learned them over the years, but I still think of basslines as just being another form of Lego.

[steve-bbb]

i do hope youre not afflicted with one of those sort of guitarers who insist on widdling all over the bloody as fast and frantically as possible in every space and opportunity?

if you listen to the music and your inner groove tell you that root notes work then root notes it is

maybe try listening to the tune and sing along what you would play as a bass line and then develope your root notes into that line

given the preferred genres you play, it would be not unreasonable at all to not stray too far from roots and thirds and fifths anyways imho mcton etc

[dincz]

I find that my best lines come from the head rather than the hands. What I mean is I sing a bass line first and then duplicate it on the bass. That way I'm not limited by my technique and sometimes have to work at playing what I can create in my head - so it pushes me to improve technique.

[Geek99]

Listen to the hi hat and beat 1. If you follow that you won't go far wrong

[Musky]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1395417742' post='2402254']
maybe try listening to the tune and sing along what you would play as a bass line and then develope your root notes into that line
[/quote]
[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1395418341' post='2402263']
I find that my best lines come from the head rather than the hands. What I mean is I sing a bass line first and then duplicate it on the bass. That way I'm not limited by my technique and sometimes have to work at playing what I can create in my head - so it pushes me to improve technique.
[/quote]
This would be my approach in your situation. Step away from the bass and use your imagination - you may be surprised at the patterns you're playing when you've got the bass in your hands.

[paulbass]

whenever i run out of ideas i tend to listen what everyone else is playing. I figure out the chords/key that the guitar is playing then listen to the to the drummer.The drummer being the most important to me. I try to marry up a melody to the drums from the chords being played. If you have a good drummer stick with him and listen carefully to what hes doing. Experiment with the notes within the chords being played.
Always remember playing bass is as hard as you want to make it and sometimes less is more. Hope this helps...good luck

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1395406395' post='2402093']
I'd normally find out which chords are being played and using the chord tones work out some nice progressions from those... so once you know those chord root notes then play with whatever else is available from those chords and I tend to look at these options as geometric shapes on the fretboard, like this lesson from Scott Devine http://youtu.be/VJNq4GVoy5I
[/quote]

My style in a nutshell

[Coilte]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1395420423' post='2402301']
Listen to the hi hat and beat 1. If you follow that you won't go far wrong
[/quote]

Excellent advice as far as groove is concerned, but it does not tell you [i]what notes[/i]
to play, which form what I can gather, is what the OP is asking about.

[xgsjx]

Another idea is to use a DAW. It might take a little time, but if you put the song into there & put a vst bassline down, you'll probably come up with things that you wouldn't've on bass.
If you use vsts for all the instruments, you'll come up with something different again. You can then adjust this to suit the finished song.

[scalpy]

You might find trying to construct question and answer basslines useful and enjoyable. There are many variations on a theme here of course but I like to establish a riff or phrase one bar and then finish it differently on the next. This can be with a different rhythm as well as different notes but it can make you sound like a mine of creativity when you've only altered very small elements of what you doing!

[CHW]

I'm no major expert in any of the three genres, but as a bluffers guide you can be throwing in riffs around the root, 3rds, fifth, 7ths and octave all day long and look like you are playing far more complex lines than you really are. For the Reggae and Punk stuff it's more about the groove than the notes IMO, while for rock you can't really go wrong with roots, thirds and fifths.

If you want to be a bit more creative, get rid of the bass, and listen to the songs without bass on them- then mentally compose the lines, singing them in your head, then pull out the bass and play them- chances are you'll not have strayed far from the Root, Third, Fifth and Octave anyway but you might have a good few chromatic runs in that you might not have thought of with your fingers on a fretboard.

[dazza14]

I've begun recording the practices, playing a very simple bass line that I can 'colour' in later when I listen away from the band, I also try and keep the songs in my head and think "what would I like to hear the bass player play?" and "what would fit that part?" I then doodle away until something sticks. The punk stuff is a little easier as I tend to separate the parts up into patterns, so the intro, the verse, chorus and 'outro', this often becomes quite samey on the intro and verse so I add or remove fills depending on what the drummer is doing. I don't want things to be complicated and messy. But I think the truth is I became lazy in repeating myself and not giving the song enough time for a line to settle in, doing the same old thing is easy but boring and I need to play and think more to find lines that will be good to play but also good for the song. Great advice from everyone, thanks to all that have given opinions.