Moving to a component setup

[Burg]

Hi,

I've had the same rig for quite a number of years now and really fancy a change.

I'd like to move to a separate component amp system so that I can swap and change more easily and try out a few different preamps. Preamp->power amp->cab. I've been able to find loads of info about preamps and cabs and I'm GASing for quite a few different things at the moment (some nice looking preamps for sale on here). But I'm struggling to get good info about what I should be looking for in the power stage.

Anyone have any recommendations for power amps that work well for bass? The cheaper the better but I probably need at least 500 watts to keep up with my ridiculously loud drummer. I currently have 2 8ohm cabs (4x10 and 2x15) but fancy downscaling to something like a 4ohm 2x12 setup eventually.

Thanks,

Burg

[Guest bassman7755]

Crown and QSC are generally the default choices. Both have a range of models to suit any particular power/weight/money requirements. Typically in such a component setup one over specs the amp at 1.5 or more times speaker power handling.

Edited March 25, 2014 by bassman7755

[BassTractor]

I hear you, but in the great BC tradition of answering a different question, please allow me to put forward the notion that you're attacking this from the wrong side. If you want a component system to have a discernable effect on the sound, then the amp is the last factor you want to change.

Better start with splitting the bass and/or the cab into two components each. These separates will have a dramatic effect on your sound.
Also, while I realise it's not a popular subject, I'd also have to mention cables. Chop them in two, and be in awe!


Glad to be of help!


(Just couldn't resist.)

[winterfire666]

chevin research A1000 or A500, loads of power, nice and efficient too and fairly lightweight, they were very expensive new but occasionally come up cheap.
very good quality amps, by far the best i have ever used for bass, especially considering the weight

there is an A500 on ebay now, if i was closer i would be all over it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHEVIN-RESEARCH-A500-Linear-Amp-/301132599490?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item461ce6d0c2

[badboy1984]

Do power amp colour your tone or does it only pump out power to drive your cabs?

[LiamPodmore]

Peavey IPR are pretty well regarded, decent power and damn good prices.

Liam

[VTypeV4]

[quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1395760517' post='2405900']
Do power amp colour your tone or does it only pump out power to drive your cabs?
[/quote]

Depends..

A modern power-amp (probably like the O/P is looking for) shouldn't colour the sound at all, it should simply take the tiny signal from the pre-amp and make it big enough to drive the speakers. The amplifiers already mentioned, Crown, QSC, Chevin, Peavey etc should all be considered to have a flat enough response not to colour the sound at all. On the other hand if the O/P was looking for a valve power amplifier then these tend to add their own characteristic sound especially when turned up. An example might be the Ampeg 300w power-amp lifted from the SVTs circuitry or the Marshall 9100 / 9200 models.

The power section in your Trace Elliot shouldn't colour the sound, all the tone shaping is done in the pre-amp section.

Hope that helps.

[badboy1984]

Thats cool to know, my trace have a poweramp in a single case unit. Is one of those very early 80's one where Trace Elliot don't do specific amp head model, so lots of different poweramp were use with the GP11.

[Burg]

Thanks for the replies everyone. There's a fair bit of QSC stuff on Ebay right now for what seem reasonale prices second hand.
I'm looking for solid state clean power at the moment. The responses so far have been really helpful, just trying to get my head round interpreting the power ratings as they're often quoted for 2 ohms, 4 ohms, 8 ohms and then bridged power. I'm guessing, that if an amp says it runs at 500 watts bridged at 4 ohms, then I can daisy chain my 2 8ohm cabs (rated 600 watts rms each) for a 4 ohm (ish) load?

Bass tractor, I'm not sure I fully understand what you're getting at?

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1395754223' post='2405801']
Better start with splitting the bass and/or the cab into two components each. These separates will have a dramatic effect on your sound.
[/quote]

My current setup is: bass -> amp -> 4x10 -> 2x15. I occasionally pop a compressor or my multi-effects (or both) between the bass and amp and occasionally use the effects loop in my amp.

[BassTractor]

Sorry for the confusion. I was just being a bitt silly and playful about the very concept of splitting units into two components, after I realised one would do it with an amp, but hardly by separating the neck of a bass from the body, or the speaker elements from the enclosure.

[Burg]

Righto. It would certainly be a bit different.

[badboy1984]

It depend what us your purpose for using separate preamp and power amp. I take it you got two 8ohms cab? If the power amp says it can go up to 2ohm then it will be perfectly fine running your cabs because two 8ohm = to 4ohm. With your poweramp can go to 2ohm that means you can drive two 4ohm cabs or four 8ohms cabs.

If you intending to drive alot of cabinets then it make sense to use a separate poweramp for that power. If you ever planning to just use the 2 cabs you got, you personally would just stick with a bass head single unit.

If I wanted to drive 2x 8x10 cabs then I definitely want a separate power amp.

[JapanAxe]

Don't forget to consider looks! If you have a rack-mount power amp, that will be 19in (48.3cm) wide. A cab that is much narrower than this may look a bit silly. Shallow I know, but I like a rig to look (as well as sound) bitchin'!

Edited March 26, 2014 by JapanAxe

[badboy1984]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1395836859' post='2406842']
Don't forget to consider looks! If you have a rack-mount power amp, that will be 19in (48.3cm) wide. A cab that is much narrower than this may look a bit silly. Shallow I know, but I like a rig to look (as well as sound) bitchin'!
[/quote]

Don't we all, it bugs me when my Trace elliot head is wider then my TC BC212 cab standing vertically ...... another reason to buy another cab now so I can stack the cab horizontally so it look better when i put the head on the top .......

[Burg]

I'm reviving this thread for more advice.

So, I bought myself a 3Leaf Enabler to use as a preamp (awesome bit of kit, thoroughly recommended) and a QSC RMX 350 as my power stage. I'm planning to run it in bridged mode to get 830watts at 4ohm. However, as I currently have 2 8ohm cabs, will this be safe if I daisy chain my 2 8ohm cabs together? Both cabs are rated at around 650watts but I'm wondering if the amp will run a 4ohm load in this way? Wiring would be as below.

bass -> preamp -> power amp -> cab -> cab

I'll also try the power amp in stereo - 2x185watts at 8ohms per side. But I don't think that will compete with my loud drummer.

Any advice appreciated.

[Guest bassman7755]

Bridged running 2 8ohm cabs will be fine.

[xgsjx]

I'd try it in different configuration & use your ears.
Why don't you think stereo mode would compete with your drummer?

[Burg]

Cheers Bassman 7755.

xgsjx- I'm currently running a 650watt rated amp through these cabs and it is sometimes a struggle to hear myself above the drummer and our 2 guitarists in what is quite a small rehearsal space. I'm just guessing that 2x185watts will struggle a bit. I don't tend to go above half volume on my current amp though so we'll see. I'm also guessing that the stereo power of the amp at 8ohms won't have enough oomph to get the best out of the cabs I currently have. Again, until I actually try it out I won't know. Wanted to check the bridged daisy chained operation for safety more than anything else.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Burg' timestamp='1399486054' post='2444740']
xgsjx- I'm currently running a 650watt rated amp through these cabs and it is sometimes a struggle to hear myself above the drummer and our 2 guitarists in what is quite a small rehearsal space. I'm just guessing that 2x185watts will struggle a bit. I don't tend to go above half volume on my current amp though so we'll see. I'm also guessing that the stereo power of the amp at 8ohms won't have enough oomph to get the best out of the cabs I currently have. Again, until I actually try it out I won't know. Wanted to check the bridged daisy chained operation for safety more than anything else.
[/quote]

Decibels (that's how loud you are) isn't measured in watts. I'm gonna take a guess that it's our cabs that are the problem & not the amp (I could be wrong).
If your drivers can't move a lot of air, then they're not gonna produce many db no matter how many watts you heat them up with.
Or... It might be your amp?
What amp & cabs do you currently have? It might be worth trying your 4x10 & your 2x15 separately & see which you like the sound of best & gives you the most db & then sell the other & get a matching cab to the one you keep.

I have a 2x10 combo where the amp is rated @ 350 watt at 8Ω & the 2 10" drivers at 400w, which can easily keep up with a loud drummer and 2 guitarists that only know how to turn up (& I've endured quite a few). The drivers are rather good & do a lot of bouncing to move lots of air, but I'm not doing any big venues at present.

There's a few folk on here with just single 2x12 or 2x15 cabs that can handle most situations.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Burg' timestamp='1399486054' post='2444740']
Cheers Bassman 7755.

xgsjx- I'm currently running a 650watt rated amp through these cabs and it is sometimes a struggle to hear myself above the drummer and our 2 guitarists in what is quite a small rehearsal space. I'm just guessing that 2x185watts will struggle a bit. I don't tend to go above half volume on my current amp though so we'll see. I'm also guessing that the stereo power of the amp at 8ohms won't have enough oomph to get the best out of the cabs I currently have. Again, until I actually try it out I won't know. Wanted to check the bridged daisy chained operation for safety more than anything else.
[/quote] I think the volume would more likely be limited by the cabs than the amp, try it you may be fine! (the H&K cabs?)

if it doesn't work out and you wanna see if chucking more power at it.... I think you're only across the pennines, and for some reason I've got two rigs still (mate, oh I deff want to buy that off you at your low low mates rates, ill get in touch.... months later....!) if you wanted borrow my Ashdown APM1000 it chucks out 500w per side into 4 ohms.
The other alternative is tell the guitarists to turn down a bit!