Diablo Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Tonight when playing back to back my 2011 Fender P, and 1968 Fender J, using a decent amp I realised just how low the output on the J is. Both are in good condition and set up pretty much as per the Fender manuals. With the P I can have the amp red input level LED flickering on all strings with normal playing, which is where it should be set. With the J it does *just* light the green LED on the E string but no chance on any other string, and no way even playing hard will it light the red. I just wondered if this is par for the course, or if there are some tricks or techniques people use to up the signal from vintage J's? Cheers, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Hotter pickups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Try raising the pickups, so the magnets are closer to the strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 It's par for the course, but if you need to up the input to the amp for some reason try a clean boost pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diablo Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Cheers. I'm not going to even think about changing the original pups in a '68, that would be sacrilege. I'll have a play around and lift them tomorrow, I don't play hard so can't see strings hitting pickups being an issue. I've got a set of Boss ME-50B pedals, I'll see if they can boost before I go and buy a pedal. I've tried winding up the output vol on the ME-50B before and found after about 6-7 on the vol it just distorts rather than gets louder. More experimenting to do so thanks for the suggestions to try. Cheers, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The pick ups in my 63 Jazz are louder than any other passive bass I've played. I've also played a 65 and 66 Jazz bass and both had powerful pick ups, while the 63 Hofner Senator was even louder, so I don't think vintage basses are normally quieter than equivalent modern ones. Maybe your 68 pick ups have a problem or need rewiring - just a thought, I don't know anything about the technical side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Vintage Fender pickups, especially Jazz Bass pickups, can indeed start to give a lower output over time and become increasingly microphonic, and may eventually need rewinding , renovating or replacing. It comes with territory with vintage basses, I'm afraid. The last time I played a selection of late 1960's/early '70s Jazz Basses at a vintage guitar dealer's shop ([i][u]NOT[/u][/i] Andy Baxter's where you got your bass from, I hasten to add) , every single one of them had pickups that were shagged out, to put it crudely. That was a bit of an unfortunate coincidence, and not all vintage Jazz Basses suffer from this problem, but a very significant proportion do. Something to be aware of if you are raising the height of the pickups is the effect of the magnetic pole pieces upon the strings. Even if you play lightly and avoid the a string hitting the pole pieces, the magnets in the pickups will, if too close, unduly influence the vibration of the steel a string causing a detrimental effect on the overall sound in terms of sustain and overall tone. That is another reason why there is a minimum distance that the pickups should be from the strings, regardless of output and volume. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 If you turn down the treble pup, you will get the bass pup performing better and vice versa. When both are turned up full the signal gets split and they are not so loud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 And once you've done the above, lower the P's pickup to quieten it down, so when you use both on the one gig, there wont be a big difference in volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gub Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Yes, be careful if you raise the height of your pickups, I did this once and seemed fine at home noodling, but when I played a gig the strings were hitting the pickups at times, and there was defiantly some weird sonic stuff going on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 [quote name='gub' timestamp='1395943821' post='2408294'] Yes, be careful if you raise the height of your pickups, I did this once and seemed fine at home noodling, but when I played a gig the strings were hitting the pickups at times, and there was defiantly some weird sonic stuff going on! [/quote] defiantly? Those pick ups have attitude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1395942413' post='2408275'] Vintage Fender pickups, especially Jazz Bass pickups, can indeed start to give a lower output over time and become increasingly microphonic, and may eventually need rewinding , renovating or replacing. It comes with territory with vintage basses, I'm afraid. [/quote] Do you know how this happens? My '63 Jazz has never had any work done to the pick ups afaik and it has been used heavily throughout it's life. The pick ups are as loud and clear as when I got it in 1980, they are much louder than any modern passive bass that I've tried. Is it just luck, or should I expect them to die off any time soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1395948711' post='2408343'] Do you know how this happens? My '63 Jazz has never had any work done to the pick ups afaik and it has been used heavily throughout it's life. The pick ups are as loud and clear as when I got it in 1980, they are much louder than any modern passive bass that I've tried. Is it just luck, or should I expect them to die off any time soon? [/quote] Well, presuming that you are right and the pickups on your bass wern't rewound( or changed completely) prior to your ownership ( as far as I know, without dismantling the pickup it can be hard to tell if it has been rewound or rebuilt ) one reason for the hit and miss nature of vintage Fender pickups is the slightly haphazard way in which they were wound in the olden days. Nowadays magnets industrially produced to specific tolerances and wrapped by computer controlled machines with very accurately measured numbers of wraps of wire. Back in the vintage era , it was just done by eye and approximate estimation so there was far more scope for inconsistency in the sound of those pickups from one batch to the next, and even between individual examples of the same batch . The truth is that no one gave it much thought at the time. The idea that these guitars would become holy relics would have been laughed at. More wire on a pickup will make it louder, but also reduces the high frequency response, and some magnets stay magnetized better than others. . Edited March 27, 2014 by Dingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 [quote name='Diablo' timestamp='1395785820' post='2406408'] Cheers. I'm not going to even think about changing the original pups in a '68, that would be sacrilege. I'll have a play around and lift them tomorrow, I don't play hard so can't see strings hitting pickups being an issue. I've got a set of Boss ME-50B pedals, I'll see if they can boost before I go and buy a pedal. I've tried winding up the output vol on the ME-50B before and found after about 6-7 on the vol it just distorts rather than gets louder. More experimenting to do so thanks for the suggestions to try. Cheers, Rich [/quote] You could try adding a preamp like the Xotic Trilogic that can boost and fatten the signal from you bass. It's quite a common fix for this kind of problem with matching the output of vintage basses to more modern ones with a hotter output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I've just solved precisely this problem with a passive Rockbass Streamer Standard. By buying a Behringer BDI21, and adding it to the signal path. It also gives me tone controls that do something to the sound, unlike the tone knob on the Streamer which does nothing. You may want something more expensive, and a 'clean boost pedal' will likely do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Pepper Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I use an MXR Micro amp pedal on my passive J to boost the signal when I need it. Does the job and doesn't affect the tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Diablo' timestamp='1395785820' post='2406408']I'm not going to even think about changing the original pups in a '68, that would be sacrilege. [/quote] I can see your point, if you have one eye on re-sale value. But even then, you could pop the original pickups back in. Are you sure that it even [i][b]is[/b][/i] all original? Unless you've owned it from new, it can be very hard to tell what modifications previous owners have made... Surely a better definition of "sacrilege" is to have a lovely old bass, that was made to be played, and you don't play it because the sound is too weak! Just nudge up the volume or gain on your amp a smidge when you switch from the P to the J Edited March 28, 2014 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 The BDI21 does change the tone of my streamer. But, that's a good thing in my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1395994877' post='2408660'] The BDI21 does change the tone of my streamer. But, that's a good thing in my case. [/quote] You need to be careful using one with a Jazz bass though, especially if (like me) you favour using both pickups on full. The BDI21 tends to suck mids, and the J doesn't have a lot to start with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 My passive jazz bass with Dimarzio DP123 set have lower output then my passive P/J bass with Seymour Duncans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Indeed par for the course. Why can't you just turn the P bass volume pot down a touch to compensate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Noisyjon' timestamp='1395995504' post='2408684'] Why can't you just turn the P bass volume pot down a touch to compensate? [/quote] Maybe it's just me (and I have no idea of the science behind this, if there is any!) but when I reduce the volume on any passive bass (and especially a P-type bass) there appears to be a loss of tone too... Completely subjective of course! Edited March 28, 2014 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1395993735' post='2408652'] Just nudge up the volume or gain on your amp a smidge when you switch from the P to the J [/quote] This has to be the easiest way to sort it. I can't really see that you have a problem. I have lots of basses that have different outputs and I just make a mental note of where to land my master volume control on my amp. I always have the guitar volume right up to get the pups working at their best Edited March 28, 2014 by ubit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 The problem I find with passive bass is, the volume is either full or off ...... turning the volume down a little it seems to lose alot of volume and tone as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1395996659' post='2408696'] ...Completely subjective of course! [/quote] Agreed. The OP might like it if he tries it though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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