barneyg42 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Twice our powered desk has packed in with various maladies, not sure what this time but last time it was the transformer. Now our singer seems to have got it in her head that this has happened on the occasions that the bass has been in the PA. Surely the only problems I could cause would be blown speakers, the input gain was not clipping and there was only a little bit of output volume to save me turning up too loud on stage in a largish pub. Has anyone else come across this?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Nope - sounds like tosh to me. On occasion I have routed some bass through our PA, and we quite frequently mic up the bass drum which is FAR more likely to produce an unmanageable peak signal. No problems at all. I don't see how the bass could damage the desk anyway. Even if you deliberately overloaded the signal to a massive extent, you'd simply encourage the input clip to do its job and protect the delicate circuitry downstream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneyg42 Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1395830358' post='2406731'] Nope - sounds like tosh to me. On occasion I have routed some bass through our PA, and we quite frequently mic up the bass drum which is FAR more likely to produce an unmanageable peak signal. No problems at all. I don't see how the bass could damage the desk anyway. Even if you deliberately overloaded the signal to a massive extent, you'd simply encourage the input clip to do its job and protect the delicate circuitry downstream. [/quote] This is what I was thinking, our normal drummer insists on putting the bass drum in and gets a great sound but after a few songs we have to take the input down as he gets louder. This gig we didn't as the drummer (dep)has a real hate for micing up! My bass is nicely limited before getting to the PA so once set it doesn't need adjusting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Yep, can't see this either, speakers would struggle first, IMO, but then the bass is the last thing to go thru a P.A, IME. Depends on your P.A as well, in that regard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) [quote name='barneyg42' timestamp='1395829702' post='2406721'] Our singer seems to have got it in her head [/quote] There's your problem right there.... Bloody singers... It's highly unlikely that bass would cause this even if the PA was cranked and, as already mentioned, the speakers would complain first. Edited March 26, 2014 by Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Same thoughts here, clipping (if present) hurts the speakers more than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 It seems extremely unlikely to me. Output transformers won't care about the audio signal anyway. Its a moot point - if the desk has broken twice you need to replace it with something more reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 i put bass in the PA system every day (its my job) never known it to damage anything yet as long as you not doing anything stupid with it (clipping ect..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 In a band I was in previously the guitarsist insidted on drums, gtr and bass, as well as vox into the pa. Not so much to make it all louder but to get a better spread of sound - so he said. Never a problem, just using two regular top speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneyg42 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 According to her and her dad it's because we are not using proper dedicated bass bins!! Shouldn't have the keyboards through too according to her dad!! Trying to work out what a 12 channel 500 watt per side desk running 2 full range speakers of the correct ohmage per side should be used for then!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 [quote name='barneyg42' timestamp='1395917528' post='2407869'] her and her dad [/quote] Ahh, I see you have not one but two problems ! Unlucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) The supply power transformer? Sounds like there is a fault with the desk somewhere that hasn't been diagnosed fully and each time you're just fixing the obvious blown part. Get the tech to do a full check. Are you using phantom power at all? Are you using an active bass? How are you plugging in? Edited March 27, 2014 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I always go through our pa never had a problem. If your desk is packing in, as said before, it's not the bass, you have some electrical problem. Get it checked or replaced IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 [quote name='barneyg42' timestamp='1395917528' post='2407869'] According to her and her dad it's because we are not using proper dedicated bass bins!! Shouldn't have the keyboards through too according to her dad!! Trying to work out what a 12 channel 500 watt per side desk running 2 full range speakers of the correct ohmage per side should be used for then!!!!! [/quote] But adding Bass Bins means that your bass would still be going through the desk and so by their theory would still break it? a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing i would guess that they lack the knowledge of how their gear actually works as has been said before it'll be an undiagnosed fault with the desk. Correlation does not imply causation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehux Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 [quote name='barneyg42' timestamp='1395917528' post='2407869'] According to her and her dad it's because we are not using proper dedicated bass bins!! [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneyg42 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1395917959' post='2407872'] The supply power transformer? Sounds like there is a fault with the desk somewhere that hasn't been diagnosed fully and each time you're just fixing the obvious blown part. Get the tech to do a full check. Are you using phantom power at all? Are you using an active bass? How are you plugging in? [/quote] Phantom power for the sax only, active bass, DI from TC head post compression, input gain no where near red lighting, just a bit on the front end for spread of sound as mentioned in a previous post. I'm guessing it's just a dodgy desk, singer seems to think as it was supplied to her for her solo act by putting stuff into the other 11 channels (especially the bass) we are damaging it!! At the end of the day we all help with repairs but I object to getting the blame and if it keeps happening how much money do we throw at it! Oh and if anything redlines it it's always her vocals or the bass drum!! Edited March 27, 2014 by barneyg42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Out of interest, what make of powered desk is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneyg42 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Early Dynacord Powermate 1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Everyone knows that you need bass bins for bass! Have you checked your XLR lead that you DI with & was it the same lead on both occasions? If it's not the lead, then you could tell her that every time it's blown, her vocals have been going through it too. Though this might not be the best idea for band harmony. If she doesn't want you to DI, don't DI. If her & her dad are the band leaders & giving you a hard time, find a band with musicians in it & join that instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyDog Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 [quote name='barneyg42' timestamp='1395917528' post='2407869'] According to her and her dad it's because we are not using proper dedicated bass bins!! [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) To be fair, ask her and her dad to explain the scientific justification they have for making this obscure statement. They clearly THINK they know why your bass has blown it and will be able to explain how the bass can affect the PA in detail to you Either that or you'll call their bluff and get to watch them stumble and squirm before you emerge triumphantly with a 'it can't be me because...' statement, informed by the mighty knowledge of Basschat. Also. Please film and post the latter Edited March 27, 2014 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Well it's blown twice. The first time was the transformer. The tech will tell you what it is this second time. I wouldn't even bother talking to them about it until the tech has had a look. He'll probably spot the problem straight away and you'll all just have made yourselves look silly arguing over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Did her Dad do sound for Shawaddywaddy? (As that seems be the common qualification claimed by anyone who gives us unsolicited advice on our PA). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneyg42 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Some great replies guys!! Her dad is in Wales and has nothing to do with us apart from last time when it blew he went apeshit at her for putting the bass and keyboards through!!! I can only think that as we don't have bass bins only the treble is let out and eventually there is so much bass stored in the desk it eventually blows!!! Hmmm....maybe not! 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneyg42 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 To be honest I'll quite happily stay out of the PA, it just means at a larger venue I'll be cranking my rig to excessive stage levels.....it has a lot of headroom and I have decent earplugs so it's not a worry!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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