Ampeg Cabs query

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='EddyGlee' timestamp='139626938]
I could have probably found and posted Reggae bassists who use 410/115 stacks who have lows that make your eyes go blurred [/quote]
I could go one better and post an RTA of 'The Wailers' in concert. The bass rig was an SVT, not that it matters, because you didn't hear the amp, you heard the PA. In this case it was a no-holds-barred million dollar plus system. The RTA shows uniform content from 50-125Hz, dropping below and above that. The level in that band width at the FOH where I took the RTA, 100 feet from the stage, averaged 106dB. It was that level that gave the impact, not the frequency. To the untrained ear, or even the trained one without a meter in hand, the assumption could have been made that most of the content was between 30 and 50Hz, but in reality it was an octave higher.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[EddyGlee]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1396272205' post='2411604']
I could go one better and post an RTA of 'The Wailers' in concert. The bass rig was an SVT, not that it matters, because you didn't hear the amp, you heard the PA. In this case it was a no-holds-barred million dollar plus system. The RTA shows uniform content from 50-125Hz, dropping below and above that. The level in that band width at the FOH where I took the RTA, 100 feet from the stage, averaged 106dB. It was that level that gave the impact, not the frequency. To the untrained ear, or even the trained one without a meter in hand, the assumption could have been made that most of the content was between 30 and 50Hz, but in reality it was an octave higher.
[/quote]

I’m not disputing that. the RTA post I would find very interesting. maybe one for another thread tho!

But you’ve quoted me out of context of what I was saying. My remark was a little flippant to make my point that it would be no help to Dave‘s cause. which incidently was the end of the sentence you quoted and missed out.

Edited March 31, 2014 by EddyGlee

[RockfordStone]

ive got my svt 3 running through the 410 hlf and it packs more than enough grunt and low end for me, even on big stages

[xgsjx]

[quote name='EddyGlee' timestamp='1396269383' post='2411552']
Ok no worries . but I’m failing to see your point!

It's all about context init.
He has as much bottom as any other classic rocker I’ve seen. all be it with loads of mid/top aswell.
I could have probably found and posted Reggae bassists who use 410/115 stacks who have lows that make your eyes go blurred but what help would that be to Dave?
It seemed to make more sense to me with both of them playing classic rock .. No?

Personally I feel if your gonna try help someone, it’s all about context of usage, or else we’re just playing top trumps. which many people do, but that is no use to anyone!

It's the same when some asks what is the “best “ amp/cab/bass etc.. without context it is impossible to answer.
[/quote]

My point wasn't really anything to do with the videos, just about Billy Sheehan's sound.

I've not been to see him for over a decade, but in the days of Talas, DLR & early Mr Big, the guitarist provided the low end. I still can't watch your videos just now, but I've always associated his sounds with lots of mids, a bit of drive & nothing to make your trousers flap.
He has a completely different sound to most classic rockers IMO.

[dmccombe7]

I understand most of the 4x10 / 1x15 theoretical arguments and how that relates to PA set ups but having used 4x10, 1x15 set up albeit few yrs back I know from experience how you can balance your sound of each cab. Obviously the max volumes to each cab aren't really ever gonna be reached and therefore its a trade off to get the balance between the cabs,
What has changed over the yrs and it is the part I had not taken into consideration was the improvements made to frequency response on each size off cab speaker.
What is coming across is that sticking with the 4x10cabs might be the better option. Its therefore down to different types of 4x10 cabs which I think would be better tried somewhere to get a feel for their differences.

Still it has created some stimulating debate.

thanks guys for the advice.

My GK amp with Berg cab actually sounded pretty damned good at rehearsals on Sun. All it took was a little fine tuning and understanding the effects of each tone contour etc.

Gonna hold off for a bit to see how I get on with my existing kit but I have definite GAS for the Ampeg sound.

Dave

[xgsjx]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1396385489' post='2413074']
Gonna hold off for a bit to see how I get on with my existing kit but I have definite GAS for the Ampeg sound.

Dave
[/quote]

That's what I would do.
If you're after the Ampeg sound, why not try something like a VT pedal or an amp simulator through your rig?

[JTUK]

Don't know how loud your amp is... but I run 750w into 4 ohms and I find
limiting the amp into 8 ( and 212 at 600w ) works better than running
a 210 at 350 watts plus the 212 at 600watts.
I find the 210 can bounce a tad ( meaning the cones hit..?? ) when pushed hard... whereas the 212 on it own doesn't.
I can, of course, cure this by running 2x210 Plus the 212, and this is a super rig
for getting onto 900 watts, but I just don't need it..and I certainly don't need to carry it.

If Aguilar made a 610, I'd have that like a shot

[dmccombe7]

Considered the VT pedal but I've tried the Roland GR6B settings for Ampeg sound but just not the same.
I'm pretty happy with my GK after fiddling with it to get more of what I want. Think some misunderstanding of the contour and it tone settings just wasn't giving me the sound I thought I should have with it.
Seems to be far better with contour off completely tho.

What are you running at the moment JTUK. ?

[JTUK]

DM, My no 1 rig is a DB750 into DB212, and DB210's..all at 8ohms
so if I want 212 and 210 then that is 8ohms per cabs with a max load
of 750w. The 212 is a very capable 600w and the 212 is pretty much all I need
in terms of sound, but because I have 2x210, I sometimes want to add 1x210 just
so it looks more the part on some gigs...plus I thought it would actually help the sound..
..but like I say, the 210 @350w sometimes appears to drive the cones...and I can hear
something. So, unless I take both 2x210's out, I am better sticking with the 212 alone.
It has a thunderous bottom but is not at all bassey and it handles the 750 at 8ohms very well.
Even though I have the 2x210's
to take out, I find I have less use for them now and they hardly go out.
I am looking for a stage/gig where I could actually take out all 3 cabs..just to try it for the hell
of it, but I can see me selling one of the 210'S as I just don't need them all.

I have a 2x112 rig as well which gets the light load gigs...

[dmccombe7]

After all the great feedback on my thread i decided i still wasn't getting the sound i was looking for and seeing an SVT4 PRO at £450 on ebay local to me i went for it so i'm back to the beginning again. Its a US one with external 110V transformer that the guy bought new in US few yrs back. Its in excellent condition and just couldn't resist it.
I'll try it with my Berg HT322 cab first and if still not what i'm looking for will look at HLF 4x10 cab. The 6x10 is a bit of a beast to carry around. I can cope with the 4x10 ok.
Dave

[Muppet]

Slightly O/T but I bought a U.S. 4 PRO a few years back and had it converted from 110v by Panic Music (since ceased trading) near me. There are two different models and if it is the more recent version then the conversion is very simple and cheap to do.

...and I used mine with a 610HLF. I miss it all the time but my back doesn't and I don't have to keep buying estate cars..

[dmccombe7]

I might look into conversion cost. I could do it myself if Ampeg would supply the parts but i'm not really too bothered if it has an external transformer.
Think the 6x10 might be a bit too much. Gonna try it with my Berg HT322 cab first and then decide if i need to go the full Ampeg rig.

Dave

[leemarseillebass]

For what this is worth as I'm over a year late(!), my overseas friend Jon has played Billy's live rig several times, the weight and impact of really deep lows, huge lower mids combined with screaming distortion is his thing, most clips/audio you can find doesn't cope or reproduce the lows well but they are permanently there, and monstrous.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='leemarseillebass' timestamp='1437893999' post='2829728']
For what this is worth as I'm over a year late(!), my overseas friend Jon has played Billy's live rig several times, the weight and impact of really deep lows, huge lower mids combined with screaming distortion is his thing, most clips/audio you can find doesn't cope or reproduce the lows well but they are permanently there, and monstrous.
[/quote]

Wee bit late but thanks for the reply. I used the Ampeg with my various Berg cabs and found i still wasn't getting the depth i was looking for. Started my search for 2nd hand Ampeg cabs and missed a few good bargains but while waiting i found out some friends had changed from their full Ampeg rigs to Markbass CMD121P & NY121 cabs and they swore by them. Had a listen to their rigs and thought that was more what i was looking for and lightweight.
Went for Markbass rig above and WHOW exactly the sound i was looking for. Lo-mid tone that sits great in the mix and the master volume is only at 2 or 3 comapred with my Ampeg SVT4 Pro at almost mid way on a 4ohm Berg cab its just unbelievable how loud these little combos are and combined with a depth my Berg cabs don't have.
Dave

[Iain]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1396096092' post='2409893']
Looked at Markbass before buying the streamliner 600 and they looked good but my gut instinct is that the class D amps lack something in a classic rock setting and I cant quite put my finger on it.
[/quote]

Whole can of worms about class D vs AB vs valve.. but I use a Markbass BigBang into a Barefaced SuperTwin for rock/metal covers and it's not been over half volume yet. Big(er) venues you'll be though the house PA so you only need to cover the stage. Small venues where your backline is the PA and there's no need for more power or your drummer won't be heard...

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Iain' timestamp='1438509748' post='2834961']
Whole can of worms about class D vs AB vs valve.. but I use a Markbass BigBang into a Barefaced SuperTwin for rock/metal covers and it's not been over half volume yet. Big(er) venues you'll be though the house PA so you only need to cover the stage. Small venues where your backline is the PA and there's no need for more power or your drummer won't be heard...
[/quote]

I've gone full circle again and back to the lightweight amps but this time i'm using different speakers so all in all a deeper more projected sound. Think it may have been the Bergs being too clinical for me. They certainly reproduce every little noise when playing and the balance across their range is very even. In hindsight i think its been speakers rather than amps causing me to doubt the rig.

Dave