OldGit Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 [quote name='MananaMan' post='239403' date='Jul 14 2008, 06:45 PM']I think the main thrust of my point got lost t in a swathe of vitriol...[/quote] Ooops, sorry, no vitriol intended ... [quote]Its the section in bold that is, to my mind, the most important thing here. There are enough quality bands, even enough quality original bands (possibly...), to fill all the venues in the country every night. The reason they aren't booked is that most promoters seem to run about booking anything they can that looks and sounds like whatever's popular at the moment to cash in on current trends. This is because British people seem to be petrified of music they've not heard of before.[/quote] But as a booker you have to fill the venue enough times per week to make it pay or you won't be working there very long. You also need some kind of quality control or auditioning system to ensure you build a reputation for the venue. The other problem is the one raised above (a long way above, and not by me ) bands don't tend to think that marketing is their job. They think the promoter should be promoting the band and, presumably, dragging people in off the street. For any band the same techniques still work (as they did when the Beatles started): Be amazingly entertaining, grab everyone that comes to see you and make sure they know when and where you are playing their town next, get them involved in promoting your gigs and then do it all again next time to them and their mates .. ie build a following... [quote]I can't help but think that covers bands that play the pub and club circuit (I'm not doubting the value of covers bands for weddings / corporate do's - the right thing for the right place) are the live band equivalent of Walkabout - churning out lowest common denominator stuff that totally devalues the "traditional boozer" that is originals bands - some of them might well be slightly dingy and scary, but they all have their own charm. If these things didn't exist then the public would still hanker after live music, and they'd be happy to go and investigate whatever is out there.[/quote] ah yes: "And a minister said his vision of hell Is three folk singers in a pub near Wells Well, I've got a vision of urban sprawl There's pubs where no-one ever sings at all And everyone stares at a great big screen Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens Australian soap, American rap Estuary English, baseball caps " There's room in pub music for covers and originals. It may take longer to get a big crowd to come and see your originals band but if you are good and entertaining (OG's cracked record time) you can build a following and compete with the people getting the better gigs. [quote]Or maybe I'm just an optimist.[/quote] Optimism is great, please keep being positive, and ... as a promoter, tell us what originals bands should be doing to fill a venue and compete with the alternative forms of entertainment .., big screens, bland lacklustre covers bands, etc No vitriol, I'm seriously asking for your recommendations from the other side of the fence, as it were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 [quote name='MananaMan' post='239403' date='Jul 14 2008, 06:45 PM']If these things didn't exist then the public would still hanker after live music, and they'd be happy to go and investigate whatever is out there. Or maybe I'm just an optimist.[/quote] Or just a dreamer! Whilst in your dream, why not have radio stations banned from playing any records over 3 months old so that all the amazing new acts that are around can get the air play they want without any fear of competion or having to prove themselves!. Seriously though, in the real world things aren't going to change. A large proportion of the gig/pub going public are more than happy to hear songs they know performed live. It's no good burying your head in the sand and insist that they are all wrong, and that they should be listening to new unknown bands performing material which can be largely crap. The songs that are popular on the covers circuit are popular for a reason! They are good songs which have stood the test of time, which people like to hear! If an originals band is any good in what they do, and in promoting themselves, then they will break through and be deservedly successful. If on the other hand they cannot tempt people away from a night in the pub watching a good covers band, then they probably don't deserve success however good they think they are. You dream of a situation where the field is left open for originals bands. I could equally dream (but I don't) of a situation where crap originals bands are drowned at birth to save us all from having to hear them. My hypothetical dream won't happen, neither will yours. We all need to accept the reality of the world, and make the best we can of it. All IMHO of course, and no offence intended. Spleen vented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassicinstinct Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 [quote name='Clive Thorne' post='239790' date='Jul 15 2008, 10:11 AM']Or just a dreamer! Whilst in your dream, why not have radio stations banned from playing any records over 3 months old so that all the amazing new acts that are around can get the air play they want without any fear of competion or having to prove themselves!. Seriously though, in the real world things aren't going to change. A large proportion of the gig/pub going public are more than happy to hear songs they know performed live. It's no good burying your head in the sand and insist that they are all wrong, and that they should be listening to new unknown bands performing material which can be largely crap. The songs that are popular on the covers circuit are popular for a reason! They are good songs which have stood the test of time, which people like to hear! If an originals band is any good in what they do, and in promoting themselves, then they will break through and be deservedly successful. If on the other hand they cannot tempt people away from a night in the pub watching a good covers band, then they probably don't deserve success however good they think they are. You dream of a situation where the field is left open for originals bands. I could equally dream (but I don't) of a situation where crap originals bands are drowned at birth to save us all from having to hear them. My hypothetical dream won't happen, neither will yours. We all need to accept the reality of the world, and make the best we can of it. All IMHO of course, and no offence intended. Spleen vented.[/quote] I agree 100%. Plus, let's be realistic here: From the promoter's/venue manger's/licensee's perspective, none of this has [b]anything[/b] to do with music or art or the perceived difference in esteem between "orignal" and cover/trib acts. It is all about bums on seats and beer through the pumps. Q.E.D. Fact of life I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MananaMan Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Hmmm.... some interesting points there folks! OG, if I was booking all the venues in this fair land, the one and only decision on whether to book a band is this : are you good? By that, I mean, do you write good songs (doesn't have to be mind-altering stuff, just songs that hang well together with a bit of thought put in), and do you play well together. I'm always about the vibe, man. Certainly I think I've got a reasonable ear, had many bands through the door that went on to much greater things, many more that didn't but all of them were very well received by the punters. Our methodology thus far has been simple: every time you get up on stage, blow everyone else playing there out of the water. Or at least, try. Sounds simple put like that, but its all about crafting the sound and feel of every part of everybody's playing so that everything works together. Get the dynamics right, get the groove right, get the mood of each and every f****ng note right. Get the balance between each player right, in each section of every song. And if its not PERFECT, don't play it. Ever. That's what I mean about hard work! Obviously, we've not done all of this in a mathematical fashion because then there'd be no soul, its just something that we've evolved over time and a lot of rehearsals / beer / arguments. Its been a long slog (there's one song in the set that, me and the singer worked out the other day, we reckon we've played something like 1000 times in the last three years...) but I think its been worth it - and thats not a statement or arrogance, thats a statement of fact (yeah, fact as I see it, big-headed tw@). Come and see us play live if you don't believe me! Clive, you've missed my point totally mate. Many people all over the world have a love of music that's good. There's quite a lot of them over here. My point is that its a cultural thing g that people need approval to enjoy music, and need to feel that its OK to jump around at a party if they feel like it. That's what I was bemoaning. Believe me, there's plenty of bands I've had the severe misfortune to have worked with that I'd rather see taken for a long walk off a short cliff above a piranha infested acid bath, but that's beside the point. If promoters were more discerning in what they booked, no-one would ever know these acts existed as they would be sat in their bedrooms rehearsing away until they were good enough to get out in the public eye. Its also the fault of TV shows such as X-Factor that have made people believe that mediocre performances are OK as long as you prat about a bit and look pretty / cool / whatever. For the people responsible for this brand of telly, I advocate the use of the Final Solution. Seriously. Bassic, would more bums not be on seats if every band was bloody amazing? If you knew for a fact that you could go to your local venue tonight and watch a band that were every bit as good as, I dunno, Black Crowes or whatever tickles your fancy, just you hadn't bought their albums yet, wouldn't you be there? Why are songs by famous people automatically better than songs by someone you've never heard? I honestly think I've got more CDs at home that I love by unsigned or unheardof bands that I've booked or seen or played with than artists with a deal. I bet you'd really enjoy most of them as well! At the end of the day, I think I really mean to attack the cult of celebrity rather than anything else. People in cover bands - if you could get the same money playing songs that you or a member of your current cover band had written (and that you had more of a personal engagement with), wouldn't you rather do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 [quote name='MananaMan' post='240268' date='Jul 15 2008, 06:18 PM']Why are songs by famous people automatically better than songs by someone you've never heard?[/quote] It may seem to contradict what I've said previously, but I don't believe that they nessecarily are. I've got quite a collection of obscure CDs as well! But: Most famous song writers & bands are famous because they have written a few good songs (and in many cases a load of crap ones as well). I.e. the good song makes them famous rather than them being famous making the song good!! Also, it is quite possible to write a cracking song and not become famous! Also, it is quite possible to be famous based on past achievments and still write crap (eg McCartney) [quote name='MananaMan' post='240268' date='Jul 15 2008, 06:18 PM']At the end of the day, I think I really mean to attack the cult of celebrity rather than anything else. People in cover bands - if you could get the same money playing songs that you or a member of your current cover band had written (and that you had more of a personal engagement with), wouldn't you rather do that?[/quote] On the cult of celebrity question I'd agree whole heartedly, especially these days when people expect instant success via the X factor or some such, without having to put in the hard graft that people used to. On the second point, yes I would prefer to be playing our own stuff, and I'm sure that most people would. Unfortunately none of us in the band have any talent in that direction, so given the choice of playing covers, or not at all, then I'd go for the covers. Taking it further, and as I said in an earlier post, for lots of us ameteurs the buzz of playing to an audience would probably be enough in itself, and the payment is a bonus. As I said in my first post professional musicians suffer from the fact that what they do for a living other people do for a hobby, so the market is inevitably distorted by that, especially at the pub gig level. I do feel for pro's suffering from that situation, but what can you do (unless you're the government or the Mafia)? I just had the thought: Do professional actors complain about about ameteur dramatics people in the same way? its a similar sort of situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cooke Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 [quote name='Clive Thorne' post='240377' date='Jul 15 2008, 08:56 PM']I just had the thought: Do professional actors complain about about ameteur dramatics people in the same way? its a similar sort of situation.[/quote] I know one thing... amateur dramatic companies have to get permission to stage most plays that are still in copyright... they also are responsible for paying royalties when they get permission as well. Some playwrights have conditions such that if the play is currently being performed by a professional company, the amateurs can't stage it. [url="http://www.methuen.co.uk/performancerights.php"]http://www.methuen.co.uk/performancerights.php[/url] shows the sort of thing I'm on about... playing covers would be a real bind to organise if you had to get permission for every song you wanted to perform instead of just handing a set list over to the venue manager to use for his returns. Can you imagine the fun to be had if you found you couldn't perform a particular song because someone else was already performing it that night in your town... Mind you that could be advantageous as well... sorry, we can't do Mustang Sally & Lady In Red for your wedding party as another group has already been allocated them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I like listening to classic songs over and over (that's why we buy CDs isn't it?) and I like playing them too. It's appreciation in another way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Actually OG, you raise a further point there. Do current classical composers get peed off because the orchestras/audiences insist on playing/hearing Beethoven/Bach/Mozart & such? Paul, that's a fair point you raise there, although the fact that royalties go to the author is probably no consolation to the actors in the professional production. I have absolutely no problem paying royalties to the author's of songs, and I'm sure it's just the practicalities that result in the different methods of collecting. After all most ametuer dramatic productions last a couple of hours and go on for several nights, so you can cover 6-8 hours of entertainment in one payment. If you're doing 20 songs for one night only then it gets rather messy and inefficent. Some of the restrictions that are put on theatrical production are (IMHO) really ridiculous. Our local primary school put on joseph & the coat thing, and one of the license restrictions was that no-one was allowed to video it - how petty can you get. So if things went really wrong with a song how far out of time would the guitarist (we all know that bassists don't go out of time) be allowed to go before it counted as a separate (but simultaneous) performance of the song, and thus incurr double the royalties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='Clive Thorne' post='240585' date='Jul 16 2008, 08:41 AM']So if things went really wrong with a song how far out of time would the guitarist (we all know that bassists don't go out of time) be allowed to go before it counted as a separate (but simultaneous) performance of the song, and thus incurr double the royalties? [/quote] No, silly, That would be jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='Clive Thorne' post='240585' date='Jul 16 2008, 08:41 AM']Actually OG, you raise a further point there. Do current classical composers get peed off because the orchestras/audiences insist on playing/hearing Beethoven/Bach/Mozart & such?[/quote] Oh they do. I used to work with a contemporary composer of some note and he was quite upset at the lack of opportunity there was for new works. Much worse than the situation for originals bands. Zero scope for DIY productions in his feild [quote]Some of the restrictions that are put on theatrical production are (IMHO) really ridiculous. Our local primary school put on joseph & the coat thing, and one of the license restrictions was that no-one was allowed to video it - how petty can you get.[/quote] SIDEBAR On a slightly related theme, Harvey Goldsmith was on the radio last night saying how great it is that everyone now videos rock concerts on their mobiles and posts them on Youtube the next day. A rock journalist was saying how the written review is virtually redundant because before he's written it 200 people have posted videos of bits of the concert. It was a very positive article about the upside of the practice. The Eagles got a mention too for still ranting on from the stage recently at people taking photos at their concerts "I know you're still in Hotel California, guys, but the world has moved on since 1976" Sadly I can't find a youtube of Glen Fry ranting on stage about being filmed Harvey was very realistic - what damange does it do? Nothing, it helps sales of the real video and CDs and downloads.. /SIDEBAR The corollary to our topic, in the theatre, is the total (economic) domination of "pop song theme" musicals over real theatre. It's teh same as covers vurses orginals and tough stuff like Jazz; More people are prepared to shell out the small fortune it now costs to go to the theatre to see stuff that's easy to get a grip on like Mama Mia or We will Rock you or High School Musical than anything totally new (or even old - Shakespeare, Ibsen) or unfamiliar/challenging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Our culture is geared towards low input, high return, immediate gratification stuff. No-one seems inclined to invest in themselves anymore and the Arts suffer. Its a pretty shallow and ultimately unsatisfying existence. It'll turn around eventually (I notice the Australians have canned Big Brother - more power to them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='240610' date='Jul 16 2008, 09:17 AM']It'll turn around eventually (I notice the Australians have canned Big Brother - more power to them)[/quote] Right on. That's why I never get too caught up in the 'Live music is dying' / 'Bass players are going to get replaced by machines' threads which are common these days. It all moves in cycles. You young'uns won't remember, but there was a time when Stock, Aitken and Waterman ruled the charts, and the world. Live music was supposed to die then. Then, along came G'n'R, Nirvana and Oasis, and everyone picked up guitars again. At this point, I'd like to call upon some words of wisdom from a Canadian Professor: [i]Wave after wave will flow with the tide / And bury the world as it does / Tide after tide will flow and recede / Leaving life to go on as it was...[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassicinstinct Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [b]"Bassic, would more bums not be on seats if every band was bloody amazing? If you knew for a fact that you could go to your local venue tonight and watch a band that were every bit as good as, I dunno, Black Crowes or whatever tickles your fancy, just you hadn't bought their albums yet, wouldn't you be there? Why are songs by famous people automatically better than songs by someone you've never heard? I honestly think I've got more CDs at home that I love by unsigned or unheardof bands that I've booked or seen or played with than artists with a deal. I bet you'd really enjoy most of them as well!"[/b] I would indeed but, in the real world, how would I know "for a fact" that they were that good unless I'd seen/heard them previously? I've seriously lost count of the number of "original" bands I've had the misfortune of seeing who were so bad they shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near an audience and every single one of them had "attitude" in spades. Self delusion I fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='ARGH' post='239615' date='Jul 14 2008, 11:02 PM']I just wish there was more cash,I see the crowds,I see the draw,and some tightwads wont dip their hands in and pay another 20 quid.[/quote] Put on your own gigs then .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='MananaMan' post='240268' date='Jul 15 2008, 06:18 PM']Hmmm.... some interesting points there folks! OG, if I was booking all the venues in this fair land, the one and only decision on whether to book a band is this : are you good? By that, I mean, do you write good songs (doesn't have to be mind-altering stuff, just songs that hang well together with a bit of thought put in), and do you play well together. I'm always about the vibe, man. Certainly I think I've got a reasonable ear, had many bands through the door that went on to much greater things, many more that didn't but all of them were very well received by the punters.[/quote] So how do you get the punters there in the first place? They have to know about the band and how good they are. Certainly if you only ever have "good" bands in your venue that helps in a general sense but your rant about NME and R1 promoted average bands pulling a crowd says it all. It's about marketing and building a following. In the same way your venue has to market itself (as well as the bands) and build a following. People need to know that, if they can be bothered to go and see an unknown band at your place, your QC process will ensure that it will be a good band, whatever genre it is. It's "tell a friend" slightly removed, and the venue booker is that filtering system. [quote]Our methodology thus far has been simple: every time you get up on stage, blow everyone else playing there out of the water. Or at least, try.[/quote] Yup post number 6 in this tread "If you want to earn money from playing don't play pubs or clubs. Stick to functions, do a brilliant show every time and you too can join us well paid function players. Simple really. " [quote]Sounds simple put like that, but its all about crafting the sound and feel of every part of every body's playing so that everything works together. Get the dynamics right, get the groove right, get the mood of each and every f****ng note right. Get the balance between each player right, in each section of every song. And if its not PERFECT, don't play it. Ever. That's what I mean about hard work! Obviously, we've not done all of this in a mathematical fashion because then there'd be no soul, its just something that we've evolved over time and a lot of rehearsals / beer / arguments. Its been a long slog (there's one song in the set that, me and the singer worked out the other day, we reckon we've played something like 1000 times in the last three years...) but I think its been worth it - and that's not a statement or arrogance, thats a statement of fact (yeah, fact as I see it, big-headed tw@). Come and see us play live if you don't believe me![/quote] Well that is one way and obviously the one that works for you but have you ever seen John Otway? Bad songs, bad playing, bad shirts, bad singing, brilliant show, huge following. Diff'rent strokes .. [quote]Its also the fault of TV shows such as X-Factor that have made people believe that mediocre performances are OK as long as you prat about a bit and look pretty / cool / whatever. For the people responsible for this brand of telly, I advocate the use of the Final Solution. Seriously.[/quote] That's Ok the people watching X Factor who think that's real are not coming out afterwards to watch originals bands ..... TOTP used to do the same thing during the miming years. People booking our band would wonder why we needed all that gear when Rod Stewart didn't even have a microphone .... [quote]Bassic, would more bums not be on seats if every band was bloody amazing?[/quote] No 'cos people have to decide what they spend their valuable time on. In one way the bands we have now are all amazing, compared to how amature bands were in the 60's. If you took the average contemporary pub covers band back to 1965 (with their gear, especially monitors ) they'd be superstars. The bar is higher. The better bands will always win out [i]in their specific market.[/i] It is so wrong to assume a death metal band is competing directly with that funny cover trio mentioned before. Better always means more entertaining in a live situaton. "More entertaining" will, again, totally depend on youe genre and market. [quote]Why are songs by famous people automatically better than songs by someone you've never heard?[/quote] They are not. The problem is when people think the other way around; that an original song is automatically better than a tired old hack like Mustang Sally [i]simply because it's original[/i], nothing else. [quote]At the end of the day, I think I really mean to attack the cult of celebrity rather than anything else. People in cover bands - if you could get the same money playing songs that you or a member of your current cover band had written (and that you had more of a personal engagement with), wouldn't you rather do that?[/quote] Well yes but I'd also want to go out in my covers band and do covers (and covers of a cover like the Black Crowes' Too hard to handle Wonder why that is their best known tune ...) 'cos I love the reaction you get when you start Love Shack Just use the Shrek approach: From Monday to Thursday you go out as yourselves; the apparently "ugly" green hard to get to know obnoxious underpaid under appreciated originals band then Friday-Sunday you go out as the Hollywood style instantly approachable witty shapely princess Fiona covers and function band .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='OldGit' post='240599' date='Jul 16 2008, 09:07 AM']The corollary to our topic, in the theatre, is the total (economic) domination of "pop song theme" musicals over real theatre.[/quote] My girlfriend's a drama teacher, and one of her colleagues (dance/PE teacher) is the thickest person I've ever met. Anyway, the other week the girlfriend was going to the theatre to see one of her students in a production of 1984, and Thick Dance Teacher said "Ooh, is that a music tribute thing?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MananaMan Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='OldGit' post='240999' date='Jul 16 2008, 04:02 PM']No 'cos people have to decide what they spend their valuable time on.[/quote] Yeah, I see your point, but then we' were talking about cover bands taking potential audiences from originals bands. These people are already going out to the pub, better (in my eyes) they go support original music than not. Of course, better to support live music than anything else but then I'm just arguing with myself... [quote]The problem is when people think the other way around; that an original song is automatically better than a tired old hack like Mustang Sally simply because it's original, nothing else.[/quote] No, Mustang Sally is a great song and probably better than 99.9% of all songs ever written (especially if you include all songs written by bands that aren't popular). Not sure if it was written for The Commitments, or if its an older tune, either way I'd rather see it done by the people I associate it with most - The Commitments. Maybe I'm just old fashioned. Or a tw@. Probably the second methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustang_Sally_(song)"]Mustang Sally[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) [quote name='MananaMan' post='241223' date='Jul 16 2008, 08:24 PM']Yeah, I see your point, but then we' were talking about cover bands taking potential audiences from originals bands. These people are already going out to the pub, better (in my eyes) they go support original music than not. Of course, better to support live music than anything else but then I'm just arguing with myself...[/quote] I see it diferently to you, clearly, as I see the market for covers and orginals as two totally different things with just a little overlap. If I go to see a (usually) young unknown orginals band everyone assumes I'm a supportive and transport providing parent who should be off elsewhere and not hanging about embarrasing his kid, a record company/venue scout, a drugs officer or a perv... However I fit right in to the normal covers band gig audience which is generally 30+ Faced with just orginals bands to see live I suspect that the majority of people who would go out to see a covers band would just do something other than see an orginals band. There's so much choice these days including staying in and listening CDs of old music [quote]No, Mustang Sally is a great song and probably better than 99.9% of all songs ever written (especially if you include all songs written by bands that aren't popular). Not sure if it was written for The Commitments,[/quote] eh? cough cough cough! splutter Blige mate, are you 12 or something? You do know the Commitments were a covers band influenced by another covers band - the Blues Brothers - don't you? It always tickles me that the Blues Brothers tribute bands are tributing a covers band No Mustang Sally wasn't written for The Commitments. Nor was anything else they played in the film. [quote]or if its an older tune, either way I'd rather see it done by the people I associate it with most - The Commitments.[/quote] You know the Commitments were not a real band? They were a bunch of actors in a film.. That's not real life. It wasn't a documentary about a real band, like, say Spinal Tap for instance. Just checking [quote]Maybe I'm just old fashioned. Or a tw@. Probably the second methinks.[/quote] ha ha nah .. Just a different viewpoint.. [i]"John Lee Hooker's Boom Boom Room has had a sign on the stage for more than a decade that says, "No Mustang Sally.""[/i] Excellent! Just glad I'll never play there Edited July 16, 2008 by OldGit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) [quote name='OldGit' post='241332' date='Jul 16 2008, 10:44 PM']You know the Commitments were not a real band? They were a bunch of actors in a film.. That's not real life. It wasn't a documentary about a real band, like, say Spinal Tap for instance.[/quote] Most of the line-up from the film still tour as a band, a sessioneering mate of mine plays hammond for them!! EDIT: For the fact that I've just looked at their website, and it's only the drummer and the bassist left now. At least they've got the important ones then Edited July 16, 2008 by mike257 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 [quote name='OldGit' post='240999' date='Jul 16 2008, 04:02 PM']Just use the Shrek approach: From Monday to Thursday you go out as yourselves; the apparently "ugly" green hard to get to know obnoxious underpaid under appreciated originals band then Friday-Sunday you go out as the Hollywood style instantly approachable witty shapely princess Fiona covers and function band ..[/quote] ...done that for a while, right up until 2 years ago in fact. How well treated and looked after my covers band was just highlighted how badly my originals band was being treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 [quote name='Adrenochrome' post='241499' date='Jul 17 2008, 08:45 AM']...done that for a while, right up until 2 years ago in fact. How well treated and looked after my covers band was just highlighted how badly my originals band was being treated.[/quote] Well that all comes back to your drawing power and that comes back to how entertaining you are and how well you play the game. If your originals band stuffed the venues to the gunnels with enthusiastic punters you'd be treated very well indeed by the promotors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 [quote name='mike257' post='241404' date='Jul 17 2008, 12:04 AM']Most of the line-up from the film still tour as a band, a sessioneering mate of mine plays hammond for them!! EDIT: For the fact that I've just looked at their website, and it's only the drummer and the bassist left now. At least they've got the important ones then [/quote] The band started gigging for real after the film when they realised they could do it for a living. Note they didn't go on to become film stars. Rock and roll has long been a way out of the ghetto. I love that film, it shows a lot of the grind and grime involved in creating a local small time band and getting it to do a gig. It was such an eye opener for civilians who had just seen Spinal Tap, the Monkees and TOTP and thought it went like that. All spouses and potential partners should see it so that they have some idea what happens when you go out twice a week to rehearsals but never gig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 [quote name='OldGit' post='241506' date='Jul 17 2008, 09:00 AM']Well that all comes back to your drawing power and that comes back to how entertaining you are and how well you play the game. If your originals band stuffed the venues to the gunnels with enthusiastic punters you'd be treated very well indeed by the promotors.[/quote] Fair point. The original music probably didn't have wide appeal regardless of it's quality. The covers band at that stage were quite ropey but we had a blonde female lead singer and played songs people wanted to hear and so were successful quickly. The originals band were certainly never interested in 'playing the game' [and still aren't in their current incarnation]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 [quote name='Adrenochrome' post='241534' date='Jul 17 2008, 09:40 AM']The originals band were certainly never interested in 'playing the game' [and still aren't in their current incarnation].[/quote] Then I'm afraid being treated badly is par for the course .... it's one of the costs of doing it your own way. You could always try playing the game whilst retaining your musical integrity. It is possible.. But you still have to be stunningly entertaining live to make an originals band "successful" by any normal measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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