gsgbass Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) [quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1398675214' post='2436323'] I don't really believe their is magic on TC heads. The head is advertise as 4ohm minimum load and the BC 2x10, 2x12 is ohm and the 4x10 is 4ohm. In theory you can only run two BC2x10 or 2x12 and one 4x10, but TC head can run three BC2x10 or BC2x12 and two BC 4x10. Which bring the minimum load less then 4ohm. [/quote] The TC E heads run on the wattage of the cabs. Hang on it will sound crazy at first. Example, the RH450 head has a max. wattage of 800 watts. The BC410 cab is 500 watts max. The BC212 cab, and or BC210 cab has a max. wattage of 250watts. Add the 500 watts of the BC410 to the 250 watts of the BC212, or BC210, and you have 750 watts, 50 watts less than the 800 watts the head is capable of @ total output. OR, Take three BC212, or BC210, or a mix of three of these, multiply the 250 X 3 equals 750 watts. Still 50 watts less than the total of 800 watts allowed. This does mean however, two BC410 cabs shouldn't run from an RH450. The two BC410 cabs will equal 1,000 watts, 200 watts over the Max. 800 watts of the RH450 head. This is shown in the specs of the RH450, [b]Power module rating. [/b]It's also in the TC Electronic support, on it's site that explains all of their design for cab combinations. The cab combinations are meant for [b]ONLY TC Electronic applicable heads.[/b] Edited April 28, 2014 by gsgbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 [quote name='gsgbass' timestamp='1398692251' post='2436585'] The TC E heads run on the wattage of the cabs. Hang on it will sound crazy at first. Example, the RH450 head has a max. wattage of 800 watts. The BC410 cab is 500 watts max. The BC212 cab, and or BC210 cab has a max. wattage of 250watts. Add the 500 watts of the BC410 to the 250 watts of the BC212, or BC210, and you have 750 watts, 50 watts less than the 800 watts the head is capable of @ total output. OR, Take three BC212, or BC210, or a mix of three of these, multiply the 250 X 3 equals 750 watts. Still 50 watts less than the total of 800 watts allowed. This does mean however, two BC410 cabs shouldn't run from an RH450. The two BC410 cabs will equal 1,000 watts, 200 watts over the Max. 800 watts of the RH450 head. This is shown in the specs of the RH450, [b]Power module rating. [/b]It's also in the TC Electronic support, on it's site that explains all of their design for cab combinations. The cab combinations are meant for [b]ONLY TC Electronic applicable heads.[/b] [/quote] [size=6][font=comic sans ms,cursive]?[/font][/size] [size=6][font=comic sans ms,cursive] [/font][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgbass Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I know it sounds crazy, but that's how they designed it. The impedance rules go for non TC Electronic cabs run through a TC Electronic head. The TC Electronic cabs work that way with their own heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) The BH500 can run two BC410. If thats the case, the BH500 is a 1000watt head? Also the BH500 can run 3x RS cab, i.e if I run 3 RS410 and the cab is 600watt each. How does the maths work? Edited April 28, 2014 by badboy1984 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgbass Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) [quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1398697318' post='2436661'] The BH500 can run two BC410. If thats the case, the BH500 is a 1000watt head? [/quote] Yes sir, you're correct. it's a 1,000 max. or peak watts head. Two BC410 4 ohm cabs will FLY…………….. Edited April 28, 2014 by gsgbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Okey. How does that work? Given that all other cabs do not dictate how many watts an amp is other than by the impedance of the cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgbass Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1398697510' post='2436666'] Okey. How does that work? Given that all other cabs do not dictate how many watts an amp is other than by the impedance of the cabs. [/quote] I really don't know. It's in the TC Electronic design for their heads only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 The RS410 cab is rated at 600watt but the BH500 can run 3 of these. If the BH500 head is 1000watt peak then how it can run 3x RS410 which will be 1800watt in total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 [quote name='gsgbass' timestamp='1398697800' post='2436672'] I really don't know. It's in the TC Electronic design for their heads only. [/quote] Interesting. The only thing that I could find from TCE's website in relation to the actual wattage of the amps is that they do state the BH500 as a 250w head, the RH450 & RH750 as 236w heads & the Blacksmith is 924w. Though it doesn't say anything about cabs increasing the wattage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgbass Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 It beats the hell out of me guys. The three RS410 600 watt cabs has me at a loss. But if they claim it will, it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 hahahaha, TC haven't really give a proper answer to this when I email them when I first had the BH500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgbass Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 What language was your email in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I'm going for a guess that it was in a language that they don't understand, like English? I'm still trying to work out how this cab malarky works. How do they get the cabs to dictate how powerful the head is? Let me get this right... The RH450 is a 236 watt head (that is stated on TCE's website, though it does say it peaks at @ 450w), but plugging 2 400 watt TCE cabs into it makes it an 800 watt head? Sorry, but to the best of my knowledge, that's impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 If the BH500 is 250watt head, how many watts is the BH250? lol When I email TC last year when I still had the BH500 they said to me the amp is still 4ohm minimum load but can run 3x BC210 or BC212 and 2x BC410 etc .... They did not tell me the theory behind how their head works with their cab etc. I personally don't think they done anything magical, I think they just put some numbers on the amp/cab to confuse us lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 It's a marketing thing. Most people associate watts with how loud a thing is, which has really been false marketing from the outset. So TC's marketing feel they need to advertise their heads to show that it's as loud as all the 500w heads (which it probably is). I'm gonna take a guess that to allow 3 cabs to be run, the amp can either run to a lower Ω than the 4Ω they state, or the cabs are a higher Ω than the 8Ω or 4Ω, or (most likely) both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1398761309' post='2437234'] It's a marketing thing. Most people associate watts with how loud a thing is, which has really been false marketing from the outset. [/quote] Totally agree, Trace Elliot amp is one of the amps that proves this. A 150watt Trace amp is very very loud, louder then most 500watt modern amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgbass Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I don't know how they actually do it, but the amps don't melt down, or do any thing but put out power with their combinations. In the support sections for the heads, they have more electronic graphs, and specs that are over my head. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esgleas Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Here I want to show a picture from one gig (last sunday). Used a TC 250 head (250 W with 4 ohms) and two cabinets, 2X10" into 8 ohms and 1X12" 8 ohms. This equipement was very loud and perhaps for the sensitivity of the cabinets. The same head amp with a 92dB cab or with a 98dB cab is like (about) 80 W power more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Not OT but Andertons are doing 30% off TC amps and combos at the moment should you be tempted.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1398761309' post='2437234'] I'm gonna take a guess that to allow 3 cabs to be run, the amp can either run to a lower Ω than the 4Ω they state, or the cabs are a higher Ω than the 8Ω or 4Ω, or (most likely) both. [/quote] BGM tested the RC cabs and found the 2x10 to be about 10ohms and the 2x12 to be around 11ohms. No magic involved, just TC playing around with numbers in order to sell stuff again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 [quote name='lemmywinks' timestamp='1399019516' post='2439962'] BGM tested the RC cabs and found the 2x10 to be about 10ohms and the 2x12 to be around 11ohms. No magic involved, just TC playing around with numbers in order to sell stuff again. [/quote] That makes sense. Cheers for clarifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 It all make sense now. Altho I love TC gears and it have serve me well, is time for a change. I'm going back to more old school vintage tone. Got a Trace Elliot 1153 coming my way soon to use along with my Trace Elliot GP11 and my Ashdown LB30. The type of stuff my band play, a single 15" is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I think some of their amps run down to about 2.6ohms too, not sure which so don't qoute me on that. I've pretty much given up on TC and their numbers games! Other manufacturers do it though, my EA cab was meant to be 8ohm (1x10 with tweeter) but when I replaced the driver I found that it was labelled as 4ohms, might explain why some people had problems when running two with 4ohm minimum heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Even if one of the TC head is 2.6ohm you can't really run two 4ohm cab. Kinda restrict you to use TC heads. I'm going back to vintage Trace Elliot stuff where a single 15" will do the trick for my type of gigs. Another big reason to change is I need cash due to buying a house with my wife lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I think they advise only using 3 of their "8ohm" cabs as other manufacturers' 8ohm cabs might cause problems. Again it's numbers trickery to acheive a USP. I wish they'd stop doing stuff like this, just being honest about specs and letting the product speak for itself should be enough. All the BS just makes people not trust them, myself included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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