Orange Bass Terror and OBC115

[sirmuppet]

Hi guys.

I've been playing a couple of times at gigs lately. I noticed something the last time I played. Like the title says I have an Orange 500 watt Bass Terror and an Orange OBC115. The Bass I was using is a 2007 Ric 4003. When I did the sound check I stood out front and noticed no projection from the bass, it was like it was lost in the mix or it has disappeared. While standing on stage it was monsterous but very bassy, like I couldn't get much treble out of it. Also if I sustained a low note I started to get a really horrible bassy vibration, like it was resonating badly.

It was only a vocal PA so I wasn't in the desk it was just that setup. I obviously want to project and sound good. I like a kind of tome that has a bit of dirt, grind with a thick bottom end and a nice ping on the top end. Am I using the right setup? I know there's talk about changing the Pre amp valves on the Orange and that the EQ really doesn't affect much at all. Should I add another 115 or get a 210/410? I don't use any pedals and the cab was on the floor, the stage was the same height as the dance floor.

Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks.

[Lozz196]

OTBs aren`t that versatile on the eq, and I`ve found that getting a great bassy full sound on stage, like you experienced, ends up sludgy mess out front. Plus, having the sound hitting your knees won`t help. Try backing off on the bass and boosting both mids & highs, I`ve found that getting a toppy/middy/nasally on-stage sound equates to a great out front sound. I also found, when I had an OTB, that Gain on anything more than 2 was too much - so up the master volume and reduce gain, the OTB still has that driven sound on low-gain settings. In the end I added a Sansamp to mine for better flexibility on the eq - a cheap way of doing this is the Behringer BDI21 or a 7-band graphic.

[sirmuppet]

Cool. I'll give that a try. I'm gonna try the mod for the preamp tubes to reduce gain, not that I ever really had the gain up high.

Ok so next time I'll reduce the bass, I tend to have the treble up high anyway but cut the mids, so I'll also try boost that a bit.

So an EQ pedal would be a good addition you think? I'll check out the Sansamp thing and see what it's like.

Cheers.

[dannybuoy]

The mid control is cut only, so setting it below noon is asking for trouble as mids are essential if you want to be heard. I run it all the way up (with treble at 1 o'clock and bass at 10 o'clock).

Also, the OBC 410 is a brighter sounding cab due to it's horn (also probably louder and just as deep sounding), perhaps look at replacing your 115 with one of those if you want to stick to Orange cabs (I don't recommend mixing 115s with 410s though).

Edited March 30, 2014 by dannybuoy

[0175westwood29]

yeh the eq isnt the most versatile so something like an eq pedal in the loop or in front defiantly helps, i use a rack eq.

the solution here for me would be to roll of the low end and this is where the eq comes into it, i tend to boost my low mids also if i rem correctly the mids on the eq are flat when on full so but cutting mids below 12 o clock you are cutting them alot.

but the best thing is to put everything at 12 and go from there, grabbing a second 115 wnt hurt at all but those cabs are plenty loud enough on there own.

andy

[sirmuppet]

I tried playing around with the settings and can't get enough top end. Would an EQ pedal solve this or are the frequencies not there?

Dannybouy, any reason you say not to use 4x10 and 1x15's together? I used to use an Ashdown ABM rig like this and loved it. Just wondered if the Orange cabs handle the pairing differently?

Lastly has anyone tried the AD200B? I know it shares the preamp with the Terror bass so I assume it has the same failing in the EQ department as the Terror bass does?

Should I try a different head? Perhaps try the Ashdown ABMs again?

[Bikenbass]

Not sure if this will help.

OTB 500
Barefaced Compact (1x15)
Precision.

Like you found, bugger all top, loads of low end. The controls made little or no difference to the sound.

So, bought an Epifani 410 with tweeter.
Same result.

The venerable Dood kindly played his Shuker through the Epifani/OTB and the result?
Immense variation in tone with really clear tops and deep lows, fantastic.
Almost the same result with a Jazz.

The Precision was doing what it was meant to, just the treble rolled off before the Jazz and Shuker. I'll go through my Behringer BDI21 next practice, using both cabs in turn and will let you know the result.

[sirmuppet]

Hi Bikenbass

Love the Sig

Ok so from what you're saying you tried both 1x15 and 4x10's with the Terror with the same results. Then you had a different bass go through it and got the results you wanted. So in theory it could be the basses I have not generating the top end? My P-bass has a P-J config and even on the J pickup I still don't get enough top. I had a USA Fender Jazz and that still didn't cut through enough.

Let me know how you get on with the Behringer. Would be interesting to hear.

Anyone any idea if the Terror can be modified to produce more top? As in replace pots, cab etc...

[dannybuoy]

About mixing 115s with 410s, there's lots of threads discussing this, but the reasons against it are:

- The power will be split evenly between then two, and the 410 will usually have higher power handling than the 115.
- There's no advantage soundwise to mixing driver sizes unless each speaker is designed and filtered to only reproduce a specific frequency range, like you get in a hifi speaker. When it comes to bass cabs, some people might think that the 115 is providing the low end and the 410 the top, but this is not the case as both cabs are running full range.
- Different driver types, and having drivers arranged side by side both contribute to poor dispersion, ie not being able to be heard clearly out in the room
- The ideal arrangement for ideal dispersion is a vertical line of similar drivers. I run my Orange Terror Bass into a vertical stack of 2x Ampeg SVT210AVs which effectively gives me a 410 but arranged in one straight line. The other benefit is having speakers up by your ears instead of firing at your knees!

Plenty of good info here from our Alex: [url="http://barefacedbass.com/bgm-columns.htm"]http://barefacedbass...bgm-columns.htm[/url]

Basically, you are running a dark sounding bass into a dark sounding amp into a dark sounding cab. Try the EQ changes suggested and that might be enough. The AD200 has a similar style EQ but it is not the same, despite Orange saying they have the same preamp. You can get a coax brighter tone out of the AD200D than you can the OTB.

The VT Bass pedal sounds great going into the OTB with a P-Bass by the way, it can add that hi-mid clank back that the amp naturally rolls off. Adding one of these or even just an EQ pedal would give you a lot more flexibility.

Edited March 31, 2014 by dannybuoy

[sirmuppet]

Cool. Thanks for the heads up. I'd always thought about the 1x15 filling the bottom end and the 4x10 doing the top, but the way you put it makes more sense.

The VT pedal, is this the one you mean? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tech-21-Sans-Amp-Character-VT-Bass-Effects-Pedal-NEW-/310914325477?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4863f01be5

I did try the EQ settings you suggested but couldn't get what I needed.

[dannybuoy]

That's the pedal, although I wouldn't pay that much for one when there's one in the classifieds for half that!

I'm thinking of switching from my OTB also as I want something a bit brighter sounding. Might go the valve route with an Ashdown CTM100, or maybe keep it light with a GK MB500 Fusion...

Edited March 31, 2014 by dannybuoy

[sirmuppet]

Awesome. Thanks for the heads up. [size=4] [/size]

[sirmuppet]

Ok, looks like I now own a VT pedal at a great price [size=4] [/size]

[Lozz196]

Good point re the VT Pedal - I`ve just got one, was happy with my sound before, though needed new strings a fair bit in my new band. But the VT really adds in the clank that Dannybouy mentions. I might even get to keep my strings on the bass a bit longer now, due to this, with the addition of my sound being so much more along the lines of what I was aiming for. For ref, my amps mids are centered at 360 & 800, with the highs at 10k, so I wasn`t able to boost in the hi-mid range. Now with the VT I can and the difference it`s made is amazing. I suspect the mids on the OTB may be slightly low on the mid-scale, having had one. I reckon you`re going to love the VT.

[sirmuppet]

Lozz196, did you try the VT with the Orange Terror or did you get that after you'd switched?

[dannybuoy]

Normally for fingerstyle I like dark warm tones, but every now and than I like to play with a pick on the P pup, and as Lozz says, switching on the VT sounds like you just slapped on a fresh pair of rounds!

For a good starting point, set bass, mids and character at 12 o'clock. Treble and gain at 10 o'clock and adjust to taste, then volume set to wherever it's equal volume to the pedal being off (which we refer to as 'unity gain' around these parts).

Edited April 1, 2014 by dannybuoy

[sirmuppet]

Thanks Dannybuoy. I'm eagerly awaiting the pedal arriving.

You mentioned before about swapping my 1x15 for a 4x10. I have the means to get a 4x10 but can't get rid of the 1x15. I don't need to use both so would it be worth getting the OBC410 or is there a 4x10 you recommend? Just I've been reading into it a lot and people mention efficient cabs, what exactly is that and how would a tell what is and what isn't efficient? I couldn't find anywhere where it describes this.

[dannybuoy]

The rehearsal rooms I used to use (Rooz in London) had Orange stacks in each room for guitar and bass, with a 115 and a 410 and AD200B. They usually only had one cable though with one or the other plugged in, so I made sure the 410 was plugged in as it had more top end.

I only recommended the OBC410 as I assumed you were set on a matching setup, but if you're open to other options,that's a big can of worms!

An efficient cab produces more volume with the the same amount of watts than an inefficient cab. That link I posted earlier (http://barefacedbass.com/bgm-columns.htm) contains a bunch of articles that will teach you almost everything you need to know. Check out his Barefaced cab range too!

[sirmuppet]

Just had a look at Rooz site, looks like an awesome place to jam. Really goos setup. Since you've used both the AD200B and Terror bass, how do you find they differ? From online demos the AD200B sounds like it has more high end.

I'll check out that link. Sorry I didn't before but I was only looking for advice on the 1x15 and 4x10 combo and got my answer from you. Should be a good read.

I've seen a few cheaper 4x10's but I would like the OBC410, then again if I can get something just as good cheaper then it makes sense not to just pay for the name. Will still need to see how the pedal does with the bass terror when it arrives. I'll checkout Barefaced cabs, saw a few posts on here about them and from what I gather they're loud.

[Jonesy64]

I use a Schroeder 410BMF with my Terror Bass. It is a very bright cab that offsets the overly bassy TB.

A 410 as already mentioned is probably the way to go although the VT Bass recommendation is a very good first option to explore.

[sirmuppet]

Well I got the VT Bass yesterday which worked out nicely as I had rehearsal last night. Didn't get to use my cab at it though I did use my head, but there's a huge difference with the VT. I got the tone I was after, well pretty much and I'm just so happy with it. I did a little test with my cab at home and it sounds good too. Hopefully get more into it when we record this weekend.

Thanks again for all the help and advice.

[Lozz196]

Great news, those VT pedals are great aren`t they.

[sirmuppet]

They're awesome. Tried it with my OBC115, still can't get enough top end. Ah well, looks like I may change my rig and keep the Orange as a backup, but hell the VT rocks!!!

[Bikenbass]

ok, tried my OTB, BF Compact, Precision with a Behringer DBI21 at practice yesterday. I found the same result as the previous posting. Terrific sound, not enough top.
As said in an earlier posting, dark bass through a dark amp into a dark cab.
Anyone tried a Jazz with a pre amp through an OTB?

[Waterboarder]

I play a Precision through an OTB with a Eden nemesis 4x10 and I know what you mean.
Treble at 3 o' clock, mid about 11 and bass about 10 with bass master tone most of the way up just about gets me the sound I like. Increasing the treble even more just tends to increase the string noise!

How old is your Terror Bass?
Reason for asking is that I played through someone elses at a gig a few months back...brand new terror but with an Ashdown 4x10 and managed to get a great sound with everything at 12 (usually put master at 12 and gain about 9/10).

This got me wondering if the new models are less bass heavy (along with being less gainey).
I cant really see the cab making that amount of difference to the sound...

Worth experimenting with other cabs though (and possibly valves, if you want to go down that road)...

I'll try and find the thread as there was some useful info on there.