herbercham Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Hi all Embarking on a liquid funk project, I am using an oc-2 for my subs, lowpassed at 80hz. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the oc-2 outputs a (sort of) square wave. Well, sounds like it to my ears, anyway. The thing is, once the 'highs' are cut from the oc-2, it loses the tonal charm that makes it so desirable, and the subs aren't as solid as, say, a sine or even triangle wave. So does anyone have any better ideas for an analogue octave pedal that will provide more convincing subs? Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsy Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Foxrox - Octron? I dunno.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 http://youtu.be/ecy9AgFqKH0 Godlyke Great Divide: http://www.godlyke.com/totally-wycked-audio-effects-pedals/hand-built/great-divide-2-analog-synth-octaver Mantic Density Hulk: http://www.manticeffects.com/products/density-hulk http://www.manticeffects.com/products/density-hulk-pro DOD are also supposed to be reissuing their Meatbox pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me And My Bass Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I have a dencity hulk and it is mega sh*t you're pants sub! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 [quote name='Me And My Bass' timestamp='1396476755' post='2414243'] I have a dencity hulk and it is mega sh*t you're pants sub! [/quote] Grammar - it's the difference between knowing your pants, and knowing you're pants. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) - Edited February 19, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Low passing at 80hz & it loses it's tonal charm? That's weird. You could split your signal, keep the 80hz filter on one channel & have a notch filter on the other set somewhere around 3-400hz to bring some tone back (play with the notch frequency to get your sound). Failing that, there's the Pigtronix Mothership or the Guyatone MOM5 for sine wave lows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 [quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1396477827' post='2414261'] Grammar - it's the difference between knowing your pants, and knowing you're pants. [/quote] I'm slightly concerned... Why does your grandma know your pants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 The Aguilar Octamizer is very good for subs as it has the filter built in, and isn't huge enough to destroy your amp. The Density Hulk is also killer, but I don't recommend sending it to your amp/cab as to get it at volume it puts mega strain on your gear. If you play shows without PA support, then the Aggie is my weapon of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG Flatline Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 [quote name='herbercham' timestamp='1396472243' post='2414178'] The thing is, once the 'highs' are cut from the oc-2, it loses the tonal charm that makes it so desirable, and the subs aren't as solid as, say, a sine or even triangle wave. [/quote] You'll not get much charm or character from anything low-passed at 80Hz. A/B it with an MXR BOD, Aguilar Octamizer etc and I doubt you'll see much difference honestly. Those pedals are all largely the same engine, just with different control sets. If you're processing the subs separately you can make it as simple or as complex as you like. As mentioned, the Density Hulk is ideal for this but can be an amp killer, but there are ways round it. Look at how proper PAs are designed, and the subs will be high-passed and limited to avoid damage to amps and speakers - that would obviously add more gear though... What cabs are you using? This will be pretty key too. My BFM cabs and most Barefaced cabs are designed and built to handle audio that low, but cabs I've had or used previously would struggle. Good luck with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquipment Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Synth! Plus low pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbercham Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 wow thanks for the responses guys! never even heard of the density hulk! I should have given a more detailed description really. I am not fussed about losing the 'tonal charm' from the oc-2, I just mean that the reason I have held onto it no longer applies in my current setup- hence the search for a different sub. To be honest, my home gear is embarrassingly poor. I play into a laptop- one usb midi input for mids/ highs in NI massive, one 1/4" analogue for subs. Splitting duties between midi/analogue in this way seems to be quite effective, but its still very early days. The laptop is where I do the lowpassing/ highpassing (at around 30hz)/ compressing etc. in the Reaper DAW, so the octaver is the only (non-midi) pedal I use. At the moment I just listen through headphones out of the external sound card. No gigs, no studio practices- I'm still trying to figure it all out. I know that without listening through decent cabs its all a bit academic. Still, even though I am using headphones, other subs, say, from Massive or produced tracks, sound better, thicker, more solid. And I am guessing its down to the waveform. Does this seem likely? Square waves aren't so great for thick subs, are they? And the oc-2 is kinda squarey, isn't it? Assuming it is down to the waveform, does anyone know what sort of waveforms the octavers mentioned above generate, or how they are generated? Or maybe its just a case of trial and error... Thanks again everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Go & have a listen to Our Helical Mind, Miloopa or Nerve (JoJo Mayer, JohnDavis & the other 2) & tell me again how the OC2 doesn't make good subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 [quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1396550572' post='2415053'] Maybe not what you are after but... from memory the OC-2 is an analogue 'flip flop' divider circuit. It produces a sine wave (or some other simple wave), then filters it to make it sound less synthy. If you check out synth mods for the pedal it actually sounds pretty wild. [/quote] I've got a synth-modded unit (and two other OC-2s, all three on my board!) and unfiltered it sounds to me somewhere between a square and a sawtooth. It's a bit too gnarly to be a regular square. The only problem with cutting the filters out of the circuit is you have to play much cleaner to make it usable. I tend to filter it with a treadle and just let it peak out for fills and legato stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phagor Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) Analog octave pedals do produce a square wave at 1/2 the fundamental frequency of your note. But they then use this to invert the original signal. Half of the squarewave is normal signal. Half of it is turned upside down. This means that the effected sound retains some of the character of your bass's tone (you can tell this by turning your treble knob up or down - you can hear the result in the octave effect), but which also has a strong octave down component. It also means that the effect follows the volume of your bass's signal, both overall and as each note dies away. After the squarewave is applied, they usually do some filtering to remove the rough edges - some, like thisnameistaken's synth modded OC-2 or the EHX Octave Multiplexer let you control the filtering. The Meatbox and the Density Hulk clones also do this trick, but use a specific chip to do the work which sounds smoother, and they have additional low filters to help boost the bass. Another type of pedal to have a look at are bass enhancers like the Aphex Xciter. I have one somewhere - it makes the bottom end thicker and more plasticky. I think it works by phase aligning different harmonics within the signal. It also does exciting which is adding extra high frequency harmonics. If you want to play with waveforms, check out the Iron Ether Subterranea. Mine arrived two days ago. It gives you an octave down with adjustable filter (sounds cleaner than the synth mod OC2 to my ears), plus octave down and normal octave synth waveforms - square, pulse and triangle that you can mix together - sounds great into my Iron Ether Xerograph low pass filter. Video here: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-mcop5MFUo%5B/media"]http://www.youtube....cop5MFUo[/url] Edited April 4, 2014 by phagor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I think the Aphex alignment trickery just applies to the top end, the 'big bottom' circuit is some kind of bass boost with a limiter to compress the lows I think. But yes, it does the job very well, and might be just the ticket if you just want to fatten up an OC-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Also consider that you may just want to look at your EQ. P-Bass, tone all the way down, take a look at the old Boss PQ-3B which can adjust down to 25hz (technically lower than the Meatbox), boost that. Or the newer MXR Kerry King EQ, goes down to 31hz. Put some modulation on if you want some movement, but yeah, easy Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 If you are playing into a Laptop anyway, and using filters on the laptop then I'm not sure you need to worry about other plugins. Stick with your OC-2 and get a decent plugin designed to turn bass into BASS. Something like Renaissance Bass form 'Waves'. I have it and use it on Kick drums and synth bass when I make electronic music as it sounds decking huge. If you are processing via software then I see no reason to do this over changing the pedals at your feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbercham Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 Sorted! Very interesting to find out how these gadgets work. I'll keep hold of the oc-2 for the time being then, and check out this Renaissance plugin. Thanks so much to all of you, I am humbled to have access to your bank of collective knowledge! It has been an education. Take it easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Also bear in mind if you've got a low-pass filter with resonance control you can cut that off as low as you like and increase the Q the hump the frequencies around the cutoff. Every bassist should have a good low-pass filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Nobody said you had to boost 31Hz, it could be used to cut down there too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlauritsen Posted November 1 Share Posted November 1 I've used both the meatbox and the mantic density hulk, and for both of them, all cabs I've tried struggle to reproduce the 30hz (of the hulk). Dialing up the 30hz knob has a clear effect on the output, but I'm not really hearing it. Is that too low for older ears? I've been looking for a sub that can do something sensible with that range, but I don't want to invest in gear just to still hear nothing. Using a crossover with a "sub" output, what would be a good woofer to actually hear it? (I realize I'm reviving a 10-year-old thread, I thought it would be a shame to let it just die...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted November 1 Share Posted November 1 2 hours ago, mlauritsen said: Dialing up the 30hz knob has a clear effect on the output, but I'm not really hearing it. Is that too low for older ears? Not your ears. When you pump up 30hz what you end up hearing from most cabs is distortion coming in at 60hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlauritsen Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 On 01/11/2024 at 19:48, Downunderwonder said: Not your ears. When you pump up 30hz what you end up hearing from most cabs is distortion coming in at 60hz. Thanks for humoring an ancient thread! 🙂 I was thinking about building something like this, but I'm not sure it would be an improvement on my current cab which goes to 35Hz? https://billfitzmaurice.info/T18.html I guess bass cabs are already designed for the low end... Does a subwoofer really go even lower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 6 hours ago, mlauritsen said: Thanks for humoring an ancient thread! 🙂 I was thinking about building something like this, but I'm not sure it would be an improvement on my current cab which goes to 35Hz? https://billfitzmaurice.info/T18.html I guess bass cabs are already designed for the low end... Does a subwoofer really go even lower? Bill will tell you not to build that for bass guitar. It is a home audio enhancement device. Bass cabs may say they go to 35hz but it's almost never 35hz that you can hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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