Head To Cab Leads

[fordbass]

Hi guys,

Was hoping for some help with this one!
As a bass player who has to fight with two guitarists in a band I was considering running 2 cabs, one either side of the drumkit next to the guitarists amps.
Reason for question was about getting a long lead to run from my head to the cab on the other side of the kit, just wondered if anyone had any comments/recommendations or that whether I should do it at all???

Thanks in advance!

Steve

[Roland Rock]

For any type of lead, you can't beat
http://www.rock-wire.uk.com

The Barefaced manual has some info on cab placement that you may find useful:

"
If you have multiple cabs then you have many options open to you - the best is almost always to stack them on top of each other. The 1x12" models can be stacked horizontally as well as vertically, which keeps the stack height more sensible if you're using three or four cabs.
If you have to place them side by side then cross firing (pointing inwards across each other, with an angle of about 135 degrees between them (45 degrees from the usual)) often works best. In some situations it can help to fire one cab forwards and one cab backwards, particularly when playing acoustic instruments, either back to back or stacked.
In smaller venues separating the cabs can work surprisingly well as this helps to energise the reverberant fields around the room - however in larger venues and outdoors this is a bad idea: In large acoustic spaces keep them close together so they couple and so that their direct soundfields do not cause nulls where they're out of phase (separated subs at outdoor gigs exhibit a power alley of increased bottom when you're exactly halfway between them, and then a series of quiet and loud alleys in parallel with the 'power alley' which you'll pass through if you walk sideways through the audience)."

Edited April 3, 2014 by Roland Rock

[JTUK]

Easy enough to buy the leads long enough, but I'd be thinking why.
Put the rig on the stage for you... they will hear it if the mix is good enough but after a while
you can get into volume wars with half stacks and the drum is digging a trench trying to get heard.
This helps no one........

Bands needs to be pokey and loud, IMO, but not a wall of sound. I generally don't like a 2 gtr approach
as they need to be very competent and confident in letting the other guy play... or else we are back to a
wall of [s]din [/s]sound. Simple things like chord lines and gtr choices need a degree of work.
If you have a 2 cab stack of any size and can't be heard, you need to start again with regard to how the band
sound is coming across. For one thing, most engrs will not be able to do a blind thing with FOH in smallish venues
if you are so loud for the room. and your band sound can be a total lottery.

[JTUK]

Nest thing to do is check the gtr sound does not have more bass on the sound than the bass player.
Simple but you will be surprised how many gtrs use a lot of bass... and flood the bass when soloing on boost.
Educated gtrs will know they can afford to wipe this off as the bass play is within that sound spectrum and better
players will encourage it.
The problems with mixes is everyone in the way of everyone else. The band will sound so much better if you respect
each instruments zones and parts... and I'd even go so far as to say that you have no chance of sounding any good unless
you can get this.

Whether you will have a sound engr that comes with the P.A ...and you don't know, tell or instruct you in all this, I doubt, as
he will have heard it all before, do the best he can and get out of there, knowing he can't do anymore.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1396528495' post='2414661']
Nest thing to do is check the gtr sound does not have more bass on the sound than the bass player.
Simple but you will be surprised how many gtrs use a lot of bass... and flood the bass when soloing on boost.
Educated gtrs will know they can afford to wipe this off as the bass play is within that sound spectrum and better
players will encourage it.
The problems with mixes is everyone in the way of everyone else. The band will sound so much better if you respect
each instruments zones and parts... and I'd even go so far as to say that you have no chance of sounding any good unless
you can get this.
[/quote]

Massive +1

A lot of guitarists set their sounds up at home and don't think about overlapping frequencies in a band situation, they want to replicate what they hear on records rather than create specific sounds that actually work. Even some who I'd class as considerate regarding volume levels do this, you'll find they stomp on a pedal and suddenly you can't hear yourself any more.

The two best guitarists I've played with had relatively thin sounds when heard in isolation but they sounded incredible in the mix every time.

Edited April 3, 2014 by lemmywinks

[Joefpbass]

I bow to the technical expertise above. For what it's worth, I played in a 6 piece band (guit, drums, vocals, me, 2xhorns), and preferred to stand next to the guitarist on stage. I got the sound guy to make me a long speaker lead, good quality cable with Speakon plugs each end. That way, I could keep my amp just behind me in case I needed to fiddle, but the cab was on the other side of the drums. It sounded better with mine and the guitarists cabs/sound either side of the stage rather than next to each other. Worked well for me anyway.

[Joefpbass]

Hi again actually just re-read your post. When you start things off by saying 'As I have to[b] [i]fight [/i][/b]with two guitarists'....... well, it doesn't look good right from the get-go, to be honest. A couple of the guys have already alluded to this but dare I say you might need a political, rather than a technological solution. Good luck with that mate.

[Diablo]

I was in this exact same situation running a single 2x10 combo which had a 300W amp and ~200W speaker output as it sat. I was just lost, and if I turned it up far enough to get heard it distorted and just sounded wrong. Going over to a much better/more powerful combo with a 750W amp, ~200W of built in speakers and adding the 2x10 as an extension cab fixed it all in one swoop. Running the ext cab just gave enough volume to run the amp just over half volume so it was still nice and clean, and both sets of speakers running in their comfort zone. I just stack them both on top of each other and stand a few feet in front.

Cheers,
Rich

[Japhet]

It's very difficult sometimes to get 2 guitarists sounding good in the same band. so much depends on how and what they play and it's often virtually impossible to get them to understand that less is often more. Last gig I played one of our guitarists had flogged his Les Paul and I lent him my Telecaster. The improvement in sound was immense and everything had it's place in the mix. No doubt he'll shell out for another LP or similar soon though and we'll be back to square 1.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1396551988' post='2415080']
Last gig I played one of our guitarists had flogged his Les Paul and I lent him my Telecaster. The improvement in sound was immense and everything had it's place in the mix. No doubt he'll shell out for another LP or similar soon though and we'll be back to square 1.
[/quote]

That was pretty much my experience with an old covers band. There's a tendency for LP players to overdo the low mids and give everyone headaches IMO, we actually went to the extreme measures of swapping out the guitarist instead of just his guitar though!

[fordbass]

Hi guys thanks for the replies, most helpful!
Re. fighting with the guitarists that was only a joke, as far as I am aware we have a good sound as a 5 piece, we only play pubs and clubs so only play through our own PA, so no micing up of amps etc. or going through mixing desk/FOH.
The thought was that 2 bass cabs one either side of the drums each one next to one of the two guitarists cabs, and in theory even up the level of bass coming from across the stage.
Obviously this would only be in venues big enough to allow this, but generally I am just running an Ashdown MAG 300 through a 1 x 15 cab.
What say you lot
Cheers

[Bolo]

Ah the 1x15 may be what's bugging you. A somewhat clearer sounding 2x12 cab may give you more definition and cut through, as well as helping with volume due to larger speaker surface.
An other option still is adding a 2x10 if shlepping 2 cabs is an option.

This in addition to all of the above ofcourse

[fordbass]

Thanks Bolo,
There is no issue with cutting through with the 1 x 15, sometimes I get told to turn down lol, as if!
It was just to see what the thoughts were about running 2 cabs one either side of the drummer and next to the 2 guitarists amps to give a more rounder fuller sound out the front, not that there is anything wrong with our sound, people seem to enjoy it, and also whether anyone sees an issue running a cab that far from the other cab, signal breakdown through a longer lead etc????
Cheers

[mikhay77]

I play and sing in a band with 2 guitarists.One with a jcm 800 the other a Messa 2x12 .We did have an issue as stated on other posts with overlapping frequencies,our main lead guitarist had and awesome full sound on his own but soon as the bass and drums played he almost melted into the mix. The simple solution was to eq his guitar and remove some bottom and lwer mids,our other guitarist has a thinner upper mid sound so it was just getting the balance right. As far as 2 cabs? Bass frequencies get everwhere so you shouldnt need to separate cabs unless the guitarist on stage left cant hear you,bar that as stated previously as long as you comfortable and hear yourself ( and others ) the rest is down to the mix.That said,I have 2 mark bass 4x10s stacked so I never have a problem! LOL. Speaker leads are pretty much available anywhere and any length and no harm in trying splitting cabs,let us know the results!

[fordbass]

Cheers guys, will see what my our Musical Dictator says i.e. my brother, who is one of the guitarists in the band, the other guitarist who my cab is not situated next to in our standard line up said go for it!!! Will let you know the outcome!

[Bolo]

Stacking two cabs vertically will give a better result unless you're playing arenas I think, due to acoustic coupling?

[JamesXP]

Not the best idea..

Having bass sources coming from two sides can create phasing issues which means your bass will be very loud in some parts of the room and nearly inaudible in others!

[fordbass]

Thanks guys much appreciated!