Legal Advice for Recorded Parts

[Shobaleader One]

I have recently left a band, of which no members have singed any band agreements or contracts. A few months previously we recorded three original tracks with the intent to release an EP, again, no contracts for the recording process were made.

Now i have left the band, the singer is apparently in talks with a label of some sort to 'release' the EP - details are sketchy at best. What i'd like to know if at all possible is - do I have any ownership of my recorded bass parts on this upcoming EP? I have copies of the stems as digital files that show when the files were created etc, and also a few images of the recording sessions themselves.

And in regards to any Musicians Union comments that may appear - i'm in the process of joining due to this problem, but my application will take at least another week to complete.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Shobaleader One

[Chrismanbass]

In a word, yes!

if the EP is released your entitled to money from your performance on a recording. The people to speak to about this are PPL [url="http://www.ppluk.com/"]http://www.ppluk.com/[/url] unfortunately if they decide to re record without you like ozzy osbourne did [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diary_of_a_Madman_(album)"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diary_of_a_Madman_(album)[/url] then they don't owe you anything as its not your performance anymore


also if you had any contribution towards writing material then you are owed PRS [url="http://www.prsformusic.com/Pages/default.aspx"]http://www.prsformusic.com/Pages/default.aspx[/url] royalties on anything that is released.

This blog may be a useful read [url="http://dearrichblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/figuring-out-songwriter-credits.html"]http://dearrichblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/figuring-out-songwriter-credits.html[/url]

of course the musicians union will have all of this information and will be able to give you actual legal advice specific to your case

but that should get you started

hope this puts your mind at ease and everything works out

cheers
Chris

[skej21]

[quote name='Shobaleader One' timestamp='1396563639' post='2415270']
I have recently left a band, of which no members have singed any band agreements or contracts. A few months previously we recorded three original tracks with the intent to release an EP, again, no contracts for the recording process were made.

Now i have left the band, the singer is apparently in talks with a label of some sort to 'release' the EP - details are sketchy at best. What i'd like to know if at all possible is - do I have any ownership of my recorded bass parts on this upcoming EP? I have copies of the stems as digital files that show when the files were created etc, and also a few images of the recording sessions themselves.

And in regards to any Musicians Union comments that may appear - i'm in the process of joining due to this problem, but my application will take at least another week to complete.
[/quote]

If the 'label' is even semi-serious they'll be making sure the bass part (maybe even the whole track) is re-recorded which will get rid of most of the legal issues. Whilst you have any rights to your recorded bass line on the that specific recording from the original EP, you don't really have many rights over any subsequent versions of the song being re-recorded or performed if the parts differ from your original one, as mentioned above.

The only thing you can really do is keep your fingers crossed that the 'label' is just some idiot who liked the idea of 'starting a label' and doesn't actually know any of the legal stuff, then you can get your share!

Edited April 4, 2014 by skej21

[brensabre79]

Yes they will more than likely re-record, so that they own the recording. They will possibly make the performers waive certain mechanical rights as part of the deal too. If they don't, you'll have rights to the performance as well as mechanical rights.

[BigRedX]

Is anyone here actually getting any money from the PPL as a performer?

I'm a member as both a performer and as a "record label" I've had a fair bit as a label but nothing as a performer. All my performance money comes from the PRS because I'm one of the registered composers of the songs that the Terrortones perform.

[Chrismanbass]

i make a few bits and bobs from tracks i've played on that've been synced for web ads etc nothing major but you are entitled to it. Unfortunately unlike PRS you don't make money every time your track is played, only when the original recording is played which is one of the ways PPL and PRS differ when they pay out.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Chrismanbass

[Shobaleader One]

Update:

So it seems me, the guitarist and drummer who also performed on the 3 tracks, are being kept in the dark about the release. Being that the 'band' (now a duo) have less than 500 likes on facebook and no real fan base, I have assumed this record label is not all that it seems.

I really don't think they have the facilities to re-record the tracks - as it was me who actually set up the recording sessions with a friend of mine for free as a favour, so no doubt it will be our recorded parts being released.

Just setting up a PPL account now to get started - clearly something i should have done sooner!

[EliasMooseblaster]

One key thing to bear in mind (we had to deal with issues of ownership recently): in the absence of an agreement, the [i]recording[/i] is jointly owned by all the people who paid for the making of it. If you managed to get the session done for free, that may be a little more nebulous, but I would have thought similar principles would apply. If you paid any fees afterwards for mastering and/or replication then that would (probably) also count. The long-and-short is that he (very likely) can't release the EP without the permission of the other band members.

The tricky bit is the ownership of the songs. If all the songs were written by your singer, he can re-record them and then won't owe you anything. If they were jointly written, he'd need the permission of all the people who have a writing credit, and royalties would need to be agreed upon.

[EmmettC]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1396612174' post='2415662']
Is anyone here actually getting any money from the PPL as a performer?

I'm a member as both a performer and as a "record label" I've had a fair bit as a label but nothing as a performer. All my performance money comes from the PRS because I'm one of the registered composers of the songs that the Terrortones perform.
[/quote]

Exactly the same for me. Never had any money for the performance, even with the one moderately successful album I played on.

[Dad3353]

I'd suggest ignoring any legal and/or financial aspect, and simply wish them luck in their new ventures, playing the 'magnanimity' card, but that's just me. I couldn't be bothered with hassles for even a modest return, let alone a small one. I understand the notion of 'principle', but wouldn't whip myself (hard...) over such matters. Move on, whistling..?

[EmmettC]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1397663912' post='2426235']
I'd suggest ignoring any legal and/or financial aspect, and simply wish them luck in their new ventures, playing the 'magnanimity' card, but that's just me. I couldn't be bothered with hassles for even a modest return, let alone a small one. I understand the notion of 'principle', but wouldn't whip myself (hard...) over such matters. Move on, whistling..?
[/quote]

+1

Though, I would ask to be listed as player on the album sleeve. It might be useful for your C.V. at some point. I keep a copy of everything I've played on, it gives you a portfolio of work to show to potential employers or collaborators.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='EmmettC' timestamp='1397664126' post='2426240']...Though, I would ask to be listed as player on the album sleeve...[/quote]

[URL=http://www.smileyvault.com/][IMG]http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/CBSA/smileyvault-cute-big-smiley-animated-041.gif[/IMG][/URL]

[ratman]

you know what they say - where there's a hit, there's a writ......

[Shobaleader One]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1397663912' post='2426235']
I'd suggest ignoring any legal and/or financial aspect, and simply wish them luck in their new ventures, playing the 'magnanimity' card, but that's just me. I couldn't be bothered with hassles for even a modest return, let alone a small one. I understand the notion of 'principle', but wouldn't whip myself (hard...) over such matters. Move on, whistling..?
[/quote]

Thats pretty much the top and bottom of it - the only thing i'm bothered about really is getting an album credit, and with being left fairly in the dark about releases I wanted to cover my back more than anything.

[lowdown]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1396612174' post='2415662']
Is anyone here actually getting any money from the PPL as a performer?
[/quote]

I have been getting money from them (not large amounts).
For recordings/sessions/promos for various show cast albums,
Some dating back quite a while (upto around 14 years)
Some of the recordings were also used on various TV stuff.
Over the past 4/5 years I have had about £300.

But I have started to think it is very hit and miss, because just before Xmas
The MU contacted me to say that they had some payments for me that had
Found their way to them via ITV (about £40, which I presume should have been collected by PPL).