P90s or HBs in 335 pup upgrade

[Bassnut62]

Hi all

I have a nice Epiphone Dot from the Peerless factory; it plays great and is a far better guitar than ti should be for the cost.
However the pups, electronics and hardware are clearly how they keep the price so low.

I am going to change the electrics, pots and some of the hardware; and I am going to upgrade the pups.

If I go for humbuckers it will be Seymour Duncan 59s and JB with covers, i.e. sweet and powerful old school PAF sound.

the other option is to go for some P90s.

I play mostly funk and disco at moment; but love a bit of country, rock, soul and jazz.

which would you recommend P90s or HBs and why?

thanks for help

[JapanAxe]

I can heartily recommend Bare Knuckle Mississippi Queen P90s, which come in a humbucker-size metal housing. I have found it great for all the styles you mention.

Here's a pic of my guitar from a previous owner:



Alternatively fit one of those P90s at the neck, and your choice of humbucker at the bridge.

[NancyJohnson]

P90s. I'm a recent convert...try a pair of cheapies.

I recently installed a pair of Warman HB sized P90s (£30) into an Epiphone Phantomatic. They were cheap enough to have a punt and experiment.

There's just so much more clarity rather than a humbucker mush.

Edited April 5, 2014 by NancyJohnson

[Weststarx]

I'd go for P90s myself, I have one in my gibson les paul junior - and they rock!

[dogload]

Haha! I would have said go for the P90 at the bridge and humbucker at the neck! I have this arrangement on my Hofher Verythin and it sounds fantastic- mind I [i]do [/i][size=4]use a lot of fuzz when it comes to the neck pickup, so it gets a nice flutey sound. Might be a bit muddy for funk? [/size]

[Bassnut62]

Hmmm....I do love P90s too, especially in a Les Paul Junior; but I was thinking they'd lean more towards rock too...but then I love the clarity....but then I have a Tele and a Strat that can provide all that single coil bite; so maybe I should go HB for the difference; but then they might be too muddy...but then I could have them coil-tapped.....you see the problem?...I don't know what to do!

Thanks for suggestions so far....think I'll wait for some more.

[Bassnut62]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1396614285' post='2415693']
I can heartily recommend Bare Knuckle Mississippi Queen P90s, which come in a humbucker-size metal housing. I have found it great for all the styles you mention.

Here's a pic of my guitar from a previous owner:



Alternatively fit one of those P90s at the neck, and your choice of humbucker at the bridge.
[/quote]

That does look sweet! How *(if at all) do the metal covers affect the classic plastic-covers P90 sound?

Edited April 8, 2014 by Bassnut62

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Bassnut62' timestamp='1396971175' post='2419277']
That does look sweet! How *(if at all) do the metal covers affect the classic plastic-covers P90 sound?
[/quote]

Almost impossible to say really! My other P90-loaded guitar sounds completely different, but it is a PRS McCarty with Seymour Duncans (original fitment). Apples and oranges really, as the guitar pictured above is a CS336, carved-out semi-hollow, and shorter scale length.

[Skybone]

Or you could get a humbucker in the bridge and an HB sized P90 in the neck position.

As BKP have been recommended already, I'd also throw Bulldog Pickups name into the mix... [url][url="http://www.bulldogpickups.com/"]http://www.bulldogpickups.com/[/url][/url], excellent pickups and an excellent service from a guy who really knows his stuff.

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='Skybone' timestamp='1397039735' post='2419942']
[url="http://www.bulldogpickups.com/"]http://www.bulldogpickups.com/[/url]
[/quote]

Damn, that website is irritating.

[skej21]

[quote name='Bassnut62' timestamp='1396612208' post='2415664']
Hi all

I have a nice Epiphone Dot from the Peerless factory; it plays great and is a far better guitar than ti should be for the cost.
However the pups, electronics and hardware are clearly how they keep the price so low.

I am going to change the electrics, pots and some of the hardware; and I am going to upgrade the pups.

If I go for humbuckers it will be Seymour Duncan 59s and JB with covers, i.e. sweet and powerful old school PAF sound.

the other option is to go for some P90s.

I play mostly funk and disco at moment; but love a bit of country, rock, soul and jazz.

which would you recommend P90s or HBs and why?

thanks for help
[/quote]

Go for P90s like the ES330! They clean up nicer than humbuckers and have a bite that gets lost in pickups that have the power of humbuckers.

http://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/products/gibson_es330_with_bigsby_vos_vintage_cherry.asp?gclid=COPdx-yM1r0CFRDItAoduywAAA

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1397128220' post='2420906']
Damn, that website is irritating.
[/quote]

It is, but the pickups are awesomely ace, I've got set of texas floods in my strat, and they are sublime.

[hubrad]

Seymour Duncan P-Rails.. best of both worlds:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/medium-output/prails_shpr1/

I have one in the neck position on a PRS, and it's brilliant in both humbucker and P-90 modes.

[Joeyfivebags]

If you can find them the Lollar lollartron's sound very good in something like a 335. They are based on the old gretsch filtertrons, but fit to a standard humbucker rout, but have a warmth to them that the Filtertrons never really had.

[BigRedX]

My current favourite P90 style pickups are the ones being used by [url=http://www.hallmarkguitars.com]Hallmark Guitars[/url]. Although they are not listed as being available separately on the site I'm pretty certain that if you email them, then Bob Shade will sort you out a price for a set.

[Bassnut62]

[quote name='hubrad' timestamp='1397149077' post='2421218']
Seymour Duncan P-Rails.. best of both worlds:

[url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/medium-output/prails_shpr1/"]http://www.seymourdu...t/prails_shpr1/[/url]

I have one in the neck position on a PRS, and it's brilliant in both humbucker and P-90 modes.
[/quote]

Some great suggestions coming in here.

I am really torn between HB or P90 and those PRails do sound v interesting....
What kind of HB do you get out of them though?
Is it full on uncovered rock tones or nice warm mellow vintage covered PAF tones?

I just can't help imagine there will be compromise in these; probably more on the HB side of things.
Would the PAF style configuration of the PRail be as good as a dedicated covered HB like the Seymour Duncan '59 and JB combo I have been thinking about?

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Bassnut62' timestamp='1396971175' post='2419277']
That does look sweet! How *(if at all) do the metal covers affect the classic plastic-covers P90 sound?
[/quote]
[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1396975886' post='2419374']
Almost impossible to say really! My other P90-loaded guitar sounds completely different, but it is a PRS McCarty with Seymour Duncans (original fitment). Apples and oranges really, as the guitar pictured above is a CS336, carved-out semi-hollow, and shorter scale length.
[/quote]
Having thought about this again, even allowing for the differences in the guitars themselves, I would say -
Seymour Duncan soapbars - plastic covers, P90 size - bright and stinging, but with plenty of fatness remaining when rolling off a lot of the treble, get nasty with distortion.
Bareknuckles Mississippi Queens - metal covers, HB size - mellow and sweet, more compressed sounding, classic rock sounds available with overdrive/distortion.

You mentioned coil tapping on HBs - to me this rarely produces anything better than a compromise tone that will 'sort of do the job'. One notable exception was the bridge HB in the Yamaha Pacifica 604 that I owned, but that was constructed more like 2 SCs anyway.

Hope that helps!

Edited April 13, 2014 by JapanAxe

[Bassnut62]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1397381912' post='2423315']
Hope that helps!
[/quote]

Thanks, it does.
It gives me a lot of other options to consider that I hadn't thought about.
I think I need to find a way to try out or at least hear some more options; before making final commitment.

Having said that, I do already have some v nice P90 type tones out of an old G&L USA Asat Special, but don't really have any good mellow HB tones; so may yet stick with the classic Seymour Duncan '59 and JB combo with nickel covers.

[Bassnut62]

[quote name='Bassnut62' timestamp='1397469187' post='2424111']
............. may yet stick with the classic Seymour Duncan '59 and JB combo with nickel covers.
[/quote]

Yup, that's what I'm doing; I decided to keep it simple. I am going to split coils on both pups though.

thaaks for advice; I'll report back when it's done

[Kiwi]

I have tapped factory original HB's by Kent Armstrong in my Yammie MSG Deluxe. I actually prefer the funkier sound of the single coil setting to (what sounds like) both coils in series. I'm hoping to find a reasonably priced MSG standard (without the trem) or maybe a higher spec Ibanez Artcore semi hollow and try a few things out to turn it into a hardcore funk machine - i.e. mostly for clean sounds. P-rails are top of the list of mods.

[Bassnut62]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1399017405' post='2439934']
........P-rails are top of the list of mods.
[/quote]

I was v tempted by those....they almost seem like they might be too good to be true or maybe too much complication for my little brain to manage while trying to play with the extra 2 strings.
Would be interested to know how you find those P-Rails......

[Ancient Mariner]

Probably a little late, but have you owned a guitar with a '59? They came as stock in my Heritage H150, and were both thin AND muddy sounding - I really could not recommend them. Replaced them with a Gibson patent number in the bridge and a T top in the neck, and they provided an authentic vintage tone. Some like the '59s, but not me.

There's lots of suggestions in the thread so I'll not add more, but if it's not too late…… avoid.

[Bassnut62]

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' timestamp='1399036658' post='2440305']
Probably a little late, but have you owned a guitar with a '59? They came as stock in my Heritage H150, and were both thin AND muddy sounding - I really could not recommend them. Replaced them with a Gibson patent number in the bridge and a T top in the neck, and they provided an authentic vintage tone. Some like the '59s, but not me.

There's lots of suggestions in the thread so I'll not add more, but if it's not too late…… avoid.
[/quote]

thanks for sharing your experience....and I am still wondering about those P-Rails; but I have done a live comparison of SD 59/JB combo against BK Mules and thought the SDs had it hands down.
I guess truth is that until I've lived with them in my guitar for a few months, I won't really know what's best for me; so I figured I would start fairly traditional and take it from there.........Fingers crossed!

[stevie]

If you decide in favour of the JB bridge pickup, the matching neck pickup is the Jazz (SH-2). It's a marriage made in heaven.

[Ancient Mariner]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1399061748' post='2440682']
If you decide in favour of the JB bridge pickup, the matching neck pickup is the Jazz (SH-2). It's a marriage made in heaven.
[/quote]

Some also also pair the JB with the Custom Custom, though I can't tell you what that sounds like.

Personally I prefer Dimarzio.