badboy1984 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I have bought a very old vintage trace Elliot amp couple of weeks ago. The amp sounded fine but I haven't try it probably because I feel it needed service. Took the amp to a well know amp tech which everyone recommended for a service. Today I got my amp back but the amp is not very loud even I set the gain half and volume half. It seems the volume knob doesn't adjust the volume that much apart from making some hiss noise. The gain set at 9.00 o'clock using a passive jazz bass the tone is very distorted at low volume ......... I running the amp via my TC BC212 and is not the cab that causing the problem because I plug my Ashdown LB30 and it is clean and loud at very low volume. Any idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 I have contacted the amp tech to see what happen. My experience on trace Elliot amp is they are very loud but unfortunately my amp is not. My 30watt ashdown lb30 sounded 10x louder then my 200watt trace amp ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I'd take it back with your cab and just see what he suggests when you plug in. Has he identified what's actually in the head itself (pre-amp and power amp?). BTW where do you get your figure of 200 watts from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 The unit has a pre amp and power amp separate in a single unit. The preamp is the trace Elliot gp11 and the power amp is so e unknown stuff, we reckon is some sort of prototype product back in the old days. He tested the power amp section and told me the amp is 200watt but can run at 400watt at 4ohm and 300watt at 8ohm. He recommended not to run at 4ohm because the cooling system in the amp can't handle that much power so I should run it at 8ohm to be safe. My cab is bc212 and is 250watt 8ohm cab. The amp is not where crack at full to distort the cab and the volume is very low. Although I got the amp for dirt cheap and the service cost for the amp cost more then the amp itself. Is not like I can sell the amp back out with this status ....... I shoulda bought a bh250 instead ....... Too late now ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 It is not funny when my Ashdown LB30 volume set at 8 o'clock (very low) and it sounded a lot louder then the trace Elliot gain and volume set at half ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 You've paid for an experienced tech to service the amp and it doesn't deliver what you expect based on his appraisal of the power handling capability. Take it back with the cab and demonstrate the problems you're having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 I'm communicate with him at the moment so will see his reply tomorrow. To be fair on his part he might not aware of this unless he have a bass and bass cab to test the tone. I will do like you suggest, taking the amp back along with cab to demonstrate the problem. I will also try it again tomorrow to double check. Also what's very weird is that when both gain and volume knob turn all the way off their is no volume produce which is common, but when I turn the gain up whole the volume is off it he amp produce volume to the cab ......... I thought it produce no sound whole the volume is off and Horne gain is up. I got feeling it might be a crap power amp in Horne until, not sure is it even possible to switch it out for something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Sounds more to me like the output you're getting is direct from the pre-amp, and it's your power section that has failed. Obviously you shouldn't try to use a pre-amp as a power amp, but it will still produce enough output to make some sort of noise, especially with sensitive cabs. Do you have access to another power amp that you could try as an experiment? Your band's PA power amp would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 You kinda make sense about the possibility that the power amp is not connected probably. Unfortunely I don't have a power amp to try ...... Amp is all in a single unit ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Not sure what you're saying regarding 'Horne', it's not a term I recognise but the combination of input gain and output volume determine how loud the output signal is, as you're aware turning the input gain up too high pushes the pre-amp into distortion (with a valve pre-amp that's 'grit' which is the desirable overdriven sound many desire) and yeah the output volume control determines the amount of amplified signal you send to the speaker - I too wouldn't expect to hear anything if the output volume is set to zero. Might be a simple loose connection somewhere so don't assume all is lost until you get the amp back to the technician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) By the way, there's a post here which shows the front and back of what looks to be the same pre-amp as yours but this other unit is teamed with a Trace Elliot (badged on the rear panel) power amp - notice the additional switches for the fan speed and UV light [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/180062-trace-elliot-ah250-gp11-mk-2/"]http://basschat.co.u...h250-gp11-mk-2/[/url] Edited April 4, 2014 by HowieBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) Bit of info here about how to set up the controls on the amp which you might find useful [url="http://www.britishaudioservice.com/inst/MK%20V%20GP11.pdf"]http://www.britishau...%20V%20GP11.pdf[/url] Edited April 4, 2014 by HowieBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 Thanks for the input man. Yeah it was a typo on the word 'Horne' suppose to type the word 'the', I blame the iPad keyboard lol. I have got the manual for the preamp but I think they problem I have atm is beyond that, need to get the amp back to the technician to find out what is wrong first. The back panel on my is completely different because is either a replacement power amp or the amp is a prototype. My have 2x speaker connection jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Try the amp again on the weekend and it seems it all working again. No distortion noise now and it sound quite loud. When volume and gain set at 9 o'clock is not very loud but when gain and volume was up to 10 o'clock it is loud and the amp came alive. I did get abit of distortion on the high notes/string but i reduce the amount of high treble on the EQ it seems to reduce some hiss and reduce the distortion. The 11 band EQ was flat but i guess is not flat at all ...... I will try again for couple of night to see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 The advice seems to be kill the volume and then set the input gain as high as possible before the signal starts to clip (the LED lighting up in that section) and then adjust output volume to taste. I really hope it continues to behave itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 The clip light was fix but didn't really try to clip it because when the volume is down it still produce some volume via the gain knob ...... turn it all the way up on the gain still produce very loud noise to distract people. I got to admit the amp sound fantastic, the only thing i don't like is the power amp and it is seperate to the pre-amp, thinking about swapping it ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 According to the power check the power amp is 400w into 4ohm and 300watt into 8ohm but recommend to run the amp on 8ohm because the amp will shut itself down when running at 4ohm ...... The strange thing is the amp is a 200watt ...... I kinda don't get when it mean. Best thing to do is to change the power amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Amps are rated according to what they will deliver to various loads and normally I think they like to quote the highest figure achievable within normal operating limits so my combo (Genz Benz Contour 500) produces 300 watts using the existing 8 ohm load (2 x 10" plus tweeter) and can push 500 watts into a 4 ohm load (when an additional 8 ohm extension cab is used). I'm assuming that's RMS power and not peak (which can be significantly higher). Your Trace Elliot pre-amp is mated with (what we have to assume) is not a standard Trace Elliot power amp so you have to go with what your amp tech advises regarding the output power handling figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 You are right about the power amp is not original. Should say the amp was problem a Trace Elliot GP11 pre amp originally but then a power amp was added and mounted to a single case unit. Kinda limit to what kind of cab i can buy, 4 ohm cab is no no for me then. Was gonna add a extra BC212 to my arsenal, now i guess i will just look for a 8ohm 4x10 or 2x15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I haven't seen any pics of this amp yet... does it really exists? lol If you're not happy with the power handling just remove the added poweramp and use the preamp with another PA amp that can go down to 4Ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 The amp is on this thread: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/232085-cant-beat-this-for-this-price/ My only concern is not the power rating on the power section. Is the amp can support 4ohm but it won't take it ..... or the power section minimum load is 8ohm instead of 4ohm ...... consider this amp is very old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Are you saying that somewhere marked on the power amp it says it'll deliver 200 watts but the tech has measured it and has told you that it'll deliver 300 watts into an 8 ohm load and 400 watts into a 4 ohm load (but not to run it at 4 ohms as more than likely it will overhead and shut down)? Is the amp loud enough for your needs? Does it sound good at the volume you'll be running it at? If so then there's no reason to change anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Thanks for the quick reply HowieBass, I don't think the power unit marked how much power it dish out but the tech test and measured the power for me and thats what he said about the 400watt and 300watt in 4ohm and 8ohm. I don't really know much about the power thing in technical terms. The amp does sound pretty loud when I use it at home and thats with the gain and volume at low level. I guess I need to try it out in a real live situation. [quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1396876091' post='2418209'] .... but the tech has measured it and has told you that it'll deliver 300 watts into an 8 ohm load and 400 watts into a 4 ohm load (but not to run it at 4 ohms as more than likely it will overhead and shut down)? [/quote] Yes to that. The strange thing about the power section is their are 2 connection jack, so i assume both goes into cabinets. If 4ohm is big no no then i can only treat this amp as 8ohm. I can only have 2 small cab or 1 cab at home so adding a extra BC212 is no no with this amp, so I think I will just get a 8ohm Ashdown ABM410. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 You might have enough grunt with the BC212, a 4x10 shifts a third more air than a 2x12 but is going to be somewhat less portable - swings and roundabouts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 [quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1396872929' post='2418160'] The amp is on this thread: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/232085-cant-beat-this-for-this-price/"]http://basschat.co.u...for-this-price/[/url] My only concern is not the power rating on the power section. Is the amp can support 4ohm but it won't take it ..... or the power section minimum load is 8ohm instead of 4ohm ...... consider this amp is very old. [/quote] Ah, now i remember. I haven't noticed that it was a preamp to wich was added a power amp section internally. But i keep my opinion, if you really like the sound of this you can have the poweramp removed/replaced with a more powerful and more modern one. If the value of the TE is worth of that it's only up to you to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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