Cab size and Aguilar amps

[tom.hastings]

Hello Bass Chat,

I recently made an enquiry to Aguilar about their bass cabs and pickups, but I was wondering what the bass communities' opinion on the subject is as I'm sure you wold be able to offer a more impartial critique.

Here's what I sent:

Hello,

I'm looking for some advice with regards to which Aguilar products would best suit my playing.

I am a bass player from the UK who plays in a wide variety of bands and I record studio sessions for artists of a variety of genres; so I need the most versatile all-round sound I can find. I am going to change my current setup and I've been very impressed by what I've heard about Aguilar as an emerging brand. It seems like everyone is talking about it over this side of the pond and it's only a matter of time before it explodes over here. I caught a band a while back whose bass player had an Aguilar rig and I've never had tone envy quite like it!

Because none of the UK music shops near to me stock Aguilar I'd like to make sure I've asked the right questions before I commit to buying and getting them exported over.

I'll give you some info about my current set-up and what I'd hope to achieve from buying Aguilar equipment.

I currently play a 4-sting Stingray through an Ashdown 500w AMB head with a 4x8" cab and a 15" cab. The problem I'm having is that my 4x8" cab is throwing out too many mids and the 15"cab isn't giving me enough bottom end on stage. So when I crank it up I give the sound engineer a headache who then wants me to turn down because all the low end is distributed front of house, but not on stage.

After brushing up a bit on some forums, the general consensus is that15" bass cabs aren't as popular as they used to be - because the low end usually only delivers to the back of the venue, which is typically controlled by the front of house PA anyway, and the sound it gives on stage is very muddy.

Forums suggest that a 4x10" cab is the answer to this, as it will offer plenty in the bottom end and still cater for the mids to give the bass sound a tight punch. What would the virtues be of using 12" speakers be compared to 10"? The forums offer very little insight into the difference between the two apart from suggesting that 12" speakers offer more in the bottom end, less in the mids, but runs the risk of having similar problems to 15" cabs.

I'm having trouble deciding which setup I should get. I'm considering the 500w Tone Hammer head with a 4x10" cab (and possibly adding a 15" cab if I'm not getting enough bottom end). Alternatively, I'm considering using a 2x12" cab instead of the 15" cab, or maybe even a 2x12" cab and a 2x10" cab. I'm not sure which combination would give the best all-round tone.

Any advice on the most versatile setup would be greatly appreciated.

I've also seen a very interesting YouTube video on Music Man pickups and OBP preamps and I'm curious as to what these would offer my bass guitar. Are they seen as a pickup to be put into basses in order to emulate the Stingray sound or would they be an improvement on my current Stingray pickup? If they are designed to emulate the Stingray sound I guess it would be pointless to consider swapping them for my current pickup unless it is seen as a genuine improvement to the pickups already in my bass.I'd be grateful for some impartial advice on that.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to purchasing Aguilar in the near future.

Kind regards,

Tom Hastings

[thodrik]

I'd guess that maybe you are overthinking things. One persons 'versatile, all round sound' is another's 'thin, characterless and generic' sound. The best option is to just find some Aguilar stuff and try some. The amps aren't that hard to come by. In terms of cabs etc, people on here would probably advise against mixing different sized drivers in a single rig. They will also advise you to buy a Barefaced cab and to try numerous other amps. Essentially just buy whatever you want as there is a lot good gear out there.

[xgsjx]

Firstly, have a read through some of the technical stuff on here, the Barefaced website and Bill Fitzmaurice's forum. You'll soon find out that your assumption of driver diameter is incorrect. You'll probably find that the 4x10 is also one of the poorest cab designs made.
A single 15 cab in most instances doesn't go as low as a 4x10 or 2x12. The reason? The cab. Nothing to do with driver diameter.
Where are you based? I'm sure there's somewhere not too far that does stock Aguilar (I know GuitarGuitar does, as does Bass Direct). So it might be worth grabbing your bass & having a day out at a good bass shop.
If I was starting again with my rig, I'd probably go for a 2x12 & if it wasn't loud enough, add another 2x12. But I'm happy with what I have.

[Phil Starr]

Hi Tom, the trouble is you can't trust everything you hear on the internet, even me.

The only thing you can really trust is your own ears. If you want to buy your ideal set up the only way is to try it with your own bass and amp, then try the others you are considering and only pay out when you are happy. Listen to advice but treat it with scepticism.

It's best not to obsess too much over speaker size, it is important but is only one factor out of many. All things being equal bigger speakers will give you more bass and small speakers more mids and tops but all things are never equal. You can get mid biased, bass light 15's and bass heavy dull sounding 10's but that has led a few people to forget that these are exceptions that prove the rule.

It's also true that we don't all agree over what constitutes 'real' bass. The 'real' bass punch of the average 4x10 is due to packing lots of cheap speakers into a too small box. This actually limits deep bass but gives a real mid bass hump of an extra 3dB or so. Packing lots of speakers together causes interference between them so the bassist can't hear the tops so well, which means the bass sounds heavier, it's often just a loss of upper mids. However I'd say many of the big bands I've seen on tour still use 8x10's because they don't have to lift them themselves and they like the sound. 4x10's aren't 'wrong' they are just another option with a few characteristic features and which are currently unfashionable.

So I don't know what you mean by bass, do you mean an extended frequency range? capability to produce lots of bass without distorting or just a bias to bass over treble? I also don't know what anyone else means by terms like 'clean' or even 'neutral'

So I'd agree with Thodrik don't make your mind up before you try, you liked the sound of the Aguilars so you have to try them somehow, then these are the ones to beat.

[Musicman20]

The Aguilar DB 112/212 cabinets are fantastic. Really.

I wouldn't personally mod a Stingrays electronics. You pay for good quality in house pups from EBMM and honestly, if you don't like that, I'd move on to another type if bass as that is the best a Ray will sound (to me, that's perfect !).

I'm not keen on the new Aguilar Musicman pickups. They sound too precise and clean/no snarl.

[JTUK]

I use DB210's and DB212.
I didn't think the 212 would keep up with the 2x210's but it really does, in terms
of low end. It is not a bassy cab, but will really fill the stage.
It has mid bite as well.
I am not sure the TH is really really man enough but the DB750 certainly is
with either cab config.
So much so, my default rig becomes the DB212..and then I can add a DB210 on top
but this is just as much visual than anything else.

You will get a full range sound (as much as this really means anything ) and a very strong
presense.

FWIW, all the Ampeg guys round here lust after the Ag DB rig.. and I'd agree that Aguilar
has well and truly taken Ampeg's place.... but with a updated take on it, and dare I say it, a better
technical ethic.
I've shared this opinion with Aguilar endorsee's and whilst you would expect them to talk up
'their' product, they could just as easily get an Ampeg deal, so you think it is down to a choice..??
and one of these guys is postively 'anal' or focused and very well informed about what he wants from a rig ...!!

Edited April 5, 2014 by JTUK

[molan]

As someone who works at a retailer that sells Aguilar I'm going to have some bias here but anything said here on the forum is very much a personal view and nothing to do with the shop.

The first thing to say is to echo the sentiment that you really need to hear some Aguilar gear and, ideally, compare it to other brands.

I absolutely love their stuff and I don't think they make a single bad product. Not only that but they seem to be bullet-proof and have a fantastic reputation for reliability and longevity.

I think the best live sound I've ever heard was from a DB751 head and a pair of GS410 cabs. Way too heavy for me to even think about but this combination (or possibly the DB410's) is the 'gold standard' of live tone for me. NB the three Aguilar cab ranges (GS, DB or SL) sound quite different so it would be useful to know which ones you heard live if you can remember.

My personal 'one size fits all' cab is the 2x12. I had a GS 4ohm version for a while and it was a great cab but I've also heard the DB and it's also excellent.

I currently own a lovely tweed DB410 but my ailing back means I never use it any more

All of the Aggie 1x12's are good if you're looking for flexible rigs. They will all handle smaller gigs on their own and you simply double them up for larger venues (with a DB head you can even use 4 of them!).

If you're generally using your cabs as onstage monitors and relying for foh for the main sound then the 12's might work best for you. The 4x10's have a relatively longer throw and I find they need a bit of volume to really make them sing. Of course, the alternative option is to use something like a 4x10 and cut the foh volume - this will depend on how big the stage is and how 'friendly' you are with your drummer

In terms of amps the real classic Aggie sound comes from the DB751 but it's a relatively heavy head and prices have increased recently. Street price on a new one is about £1,999 now and some people have put them up to £2,100. The TH500 does a good job at replicating the DB sound though and it's both lighter and significantly cheaper.

For a great light weight rig that cops a lot of the core Aguilar tone then a TH500 and a pair of SL112's is a great combination. People will deal on this setup as well

The other range worth considering might be Bergantino - I bounce between these two as my personal favourites and am currently gigging a Berg 210 (unfortunately Aguilar don't make a lightweight 210).

[tom.hastings]

Thank you for the responses, guys. Some very useful advice there. The general consensus seems to be that the 12" speakers have a lot to offer an all-round, as do the 10" speakers to a similar degree. The 15" cabs don't seem to be getting much of a look-in though.

But, the best thing to do would be to try and find somewhere that actually stock Aguilar and try them out. I've been struggling to find any places close to Manchester. Any suggestions? Most places that stock them appear to be down south. The problem with trying gear out in the shop is that it might sound amazing by itself, but put it with a full band and it's a totally different sound. I feel it may be a trial and error, slow build job.

It may interest you to hear Aguilar's response to my email. Seems like a nice chap and gave a very speedy response:

Hello Tom,

Thank you for considering Aguilar gear! It is great to have a distributor in the UK now as it helps to expand our reach to more players there!

I would have to say that a 410 is a great place to start here. You can go with an 8 ohm cab to start and then add a second cab – such as a 212 or 115 – at a later date.

The 10” speaker is very balanced with plenty of lows. I would say that is a bit “tighter” due to the smaller diameter of the driver. The 12” speaker has a bit more ‘roundness’ in the lows but still plenty of definition in the mids.

I am probably going to recommend our DB series cabs for you but feel free to let me know more about the music you are playing and I can assist further on that point.

I am in love with our new MM pickup! It sounds great – definitely more of that classic tone BUT with a much more even response in all registers with no dead spots. I cannot recommend these enough!

Please let me know if I can assist further.

[Lozz196]

Great advice from both Aguilar and Molan there. Considering that Aggie gear isn`t cheap, I`d take a drive down to Molans shop one weekend and have a tryout. Spending that much money you`ve got to get it right. Not a bad journey from Manchester.

[Musicman20]

I'm a bit confused by the 10 vs 12 inch speaker comment. Perhaps their particular drivers are voiced like that but the whole '10" cabs have less bass' isn't true. It might be for their cabs though.

[JTUK]

I think the 212 is bigger sounding down low than my 2x210's.
I can live with both very easily and rotate between smaller 210 cabs that I carry
than a 212 that I can wheel.
If I know the load-in then I prefer the 212 in an ideal world.
I think I also prefer the mids from the 212...but I think I need to run both a bit
more to get a conclusive result.
I've not heard the 2x210's having a longer through but the 410 is pretty deep, iirc
so how it compares to 2x210's I am not sure.

The 212 is a great cab tho.... but none of the cab configs give me masses of bass..( would hate that )
as the sound is big enough and focused. I would discribe them as very well balanced
as you get the hear what the whole range will do...
All of them have tweeters turned up to 50% on the dial.