Students squire almost as good as my MIA Fender

[ashgeezer]

The wife bought me a cheap (and i mean cheap) precision copy last christmas as i wanted something i could put in the corner of the room and pick it up whenever the mood takes me and it sounds incredible for such a cheap and nasty bass, ok so theres a bit of fretbuzz here and there which is annoying after a bit but i can get sounds out of it i cant get out of my mim precision and to be honest im seriously thinking of getting a squire precision as i love precisions, it seems to me that squire are getting their act together of late.

[stingrayfan]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='240564' date='Jul 16 2008, 07:56 AM']Odd that someone has used the Veblen goods comparison with Warwick... I'd have thought that by now someone might have expanded the debate out from Squire v Fender to Squire type basses (i.e. cheap BO Fender style basses) to Sadowsky and Lakland![/quote]
We start out buying cheap Fender copies, save up for a Fender, then pine for expensive Fender copies!

[Golchen]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='240397' date='Jul 15 2008, 09:31 PM']the Squier is up to the mark... the only drawback with it is that it has the Squier Logo... some people can't get past that fact...[/quote]


That's me - I just really don't like the idea of a squier branded guitar of any sort, although I guess that if I found a cheap one with an action to die for I'd get it.

[rjb]

I'd happily buy a Squier to sit next to my Warwicks. ^_^

In fact, it just so happens that I have my eye on a Jaco Jazz VM fretless, having heard so many good things about them.

Edited July 16, 2008 by rjb

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='El_JimBob' post='238932' date='Jul 14 2008, 09:27 AM']I think those were imported by Strings&Things (Ernie Ball distributor).... nice and solid - no frills - like a jazzer should be i guess.
Part of the thing with more [i]obscure[/i] brandings, is relying on a quality importer/distributor to cherry pick the best of the bunch. Unlike trash like 'Swift' guitars and basses, for example, which are obviously sold by someone who could care less
Chinese production is a bit of a minefield, but it at least pays to have a try sometimes, as you have proved....[/quote]
Spot on! It was imported by Strings&Things and they have done the hard work of sorting out the wheat from the chaff.. Got to give a bit of credit to the shop that I bought it from too, Amps'n'Bits in Worthing, as the guy who owns it is bass player himself and he knows his stuff.

[Machines]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='240397' date='Jul 15 2008, 09:31 PM']the Squier is up to the mark... the only drawback with it is that it has the Squier Logo... some people can't get past that fact...[/quote]

Guilty.

I really fancy a Squier Telebass or the 50's Precision. I'd probably be lame and change the logo though..

[Son of the Wear]

My experience is a bit diferent - but I know its horses for courses. I am looking for an MIA Jazz at the moment (shameless plug for my ad in the wanted section....) as all the MIAs i have tried have had that extra 'something' that makes the extra cost worth it.

It also matters to me about resale - i have tried some excellent Squiers/SXs/etc which are pretty cheap - but they also seem to lose a lot of value when it comes to moving them on - when (as usual) something new catches your eye and the GAS strikes

[peted]

Oops, I haven't been back on this thread in a while. Didn't mean to start a Mac vs. PC debate at all. Though since Apple have moved to Intel processors the reason for their greater mark-up over PCs is questionable. If you think that the Mac has things better 'under the hoood' the OSX Operating System kernel is based on BSD Unix, which there are many flavours of available for the PC (FreeBSD, NetBSD, PC-BSD), or you could go with Linux. All of this being entirely off-topic, but I work in IT

As far as Warwick being Veblen - You've got to admit that Warwicks are quite expensive when bought from new? I know they are crafted in Germany from gorgeous woods and with great quality control; but £1000+ RRP for a bolt-on Thumb? I love Warwicks and mine is purchased from new, but I'm thinking that is a bit steep given the competition.

On topic - Far East quality control has to be the best it has ever been. I think the social stigma of purchasing a Squire, Rockbass or OLP has decreased, but it is still there. This means that Fender USA, Musicman and *Warwick* will still get away with charging high prices for their products to keep the >prestige< market fuelled.

[Dave Dubya]

I wonder how much of a placebo effect the badge has....


...could 9/10 bass players pass the Pepsi....Fender Challenge?

[Geek99]

[quote name='Machines' post='240649' date='Jul 16 2008, 09:51 AM']Guilty.

I really fancy a Squier Telebass or the 50's Precision. I'd probably be lame and change the logo though..[/quote]


what, you mean, scrape the squier one off? Can you buy the fender decals?

[Geek99]

Can someone tell me how different the Squier standard jazz and VM jazz actually are?
There does seem to be a a large price difference. I like the look on the VM more, but I'm not sure look alone is worth the differential.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Geek99

[Paul Cooke]

not having a Squier Standard jazz means I can't make a meaningful comment...

however, I'll note this...

the Duncan Designed pickups on my VMJ are very hot, the control plate wiring and pots are of very good standard, and there's been a lot of attention gone into the finish of the block inlays, binding and fretwork on the maple fingerboard. They're real block inlays on mine, not painted on.

[Paul Cooke]

[quote name='Geek99' post='240856' date='Jul 16 2008, 01:38 PM']what, you mean, scrape the squier one off? Can you buy the fender decals?[/quote]

not genuine Fender ones... you can buy "pattern" ones on the web, but Fender hunt down and send C&D notices as fast as they can find them...

Several sites I had bookmarked have been shut down. I'm planning to possibly replace the Squier logo with a custom one in the Fender style but saying "Paul's Jazz Bass" rather than "Squier Jazz Bass"

[Jezyorkshire]

Someone mentioned resale value, if you think in % terms i have seen used MIA Fenders advertised for sale from about £450 , which means if i sold mine thats almost 50%, if my student sold his Squire at 50 % he would be losing £60ish.
As for what is on the headstock, what impresses me is a persons musicality, imagine if you found out your favourite bass line by your favourite player was recorded on a chinese Squire, wouldnt bother me in the slightest, in fact, wouldnt it be really great if a top band was assembled that only used cheap squires or the like just to see what results they produced, now that would be interesting, cheers Jez.

[Jono Bolton]

It's not a bass, but my Squier Strat is one of the nicest playing guitars I've ever used, and the neck is brilliant. It's 6 years old and fairly battle scarred, but thbuild quality is outstanding, especially since it cost £180. The pickups weren't up to much but it gets used for rock mostly so I used it as the base for a wiring project and now it has 2 humbuckers in it, and with the exception of an ill-fitting aftermarket scratchplate it's brilliant. There's a bit of a jump in quality between the Affinity series and the Standard's, but they're really well made instruments.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='peted' post='240822' date='Jul 16 2008, 01:06 PM']As far as Warwick being Veblen - You've got to admit that Warwicks are quite expensive when bought from new? I know they are crafted in Germany from gorgeous woods and with great quality control; but £1000+ RRP for a bolt-on Thumb? I love Warwicks and mine is purchased from new, but I'm thinking that is a bit steep given the competition.[/quote]

Lets think about this... which is worth £1000? A BO neck bass with active electronics, quality hardware, nice woods and concave/convex body shape or BO neck bass with passive electronics, quality hardware, painted body and flat body shape? Probably neither but in crude terms looking at it on paper, I think some of the BO Fender clones could be deemed pricey for what they are.

[noisedude]

Peted- I used to work in IT too and, whilst I agree with you on iPods and don't have one for that reason, there is no other fully conceived platform which includes quality, stylish and well-designed hardware and a commercially-supported (i.e. not Unix/Linux, and if you've ever contacted Canonical for help you'll know what I mean), safe, quick and unintrusive operating system that I can buy for the price of a Macbook or iMac.

After using MS since DOS 6 I'm now a complete convert, I'm afraid to say.

The bass debate is excellent too chaps, I wonder whether it would be possible to get an idea of how much the price of an American Fender is made up of the wages, H&S/COSH rules, pensions, paid breaks, factory/facilities management and upkeep and so on. Not because I want to make a political point about Chinese labour or anything, but with a like-for-like construction such as a J-Bass it would be interesting to see how much more money was actually spent on woods and hardware. I suspect it might not be all that much more than in the Chinese one.

[XB26354]

I think you'll find that the wood, hardware and electronics cost about £100, £150 absolute tops on a MIA Fender, maybe a touch more for the translucent finishes as the body wood needs to look nicer. The rest is made up of the other costs mentioned above. I just got a MIM Fender P-bass with a lovely figured-looking alder body, great sound, high output, no noise and very light for £399. I could have spent another £550 to buy the American Standard and get.... a case. The MIA is for snobs that have to have Made in the USA on the headstock. I also got one of my students the Squier VMJ - for £250 they're seriosuly good. I guess it is just that you have to try a bunch of Fenders and choose the best one. That applies to MIA as well.

[Stan_da_man]

Another thing that gets my goat about Fender owners is that they always have to put MI"X" in their sigs has if others are just judging them on the type of Fender they own - MIA must mean it's better sounding than MIM; not necessarily. I have no intention of buyng or owning a Fender and never will.

[tempo]

+1 to warwickhunt on comparitive value of warwicks. And yes, I partially agree to the idea of USA fenders not being twice as good as the Mexican or Squire versions, but whether you like it or not, buying fenders (esp USA) is buying the badge, your money, your choice (i will never spend my own on one). But buying a USA fender at least means you wont lose much, if anything, on resale. But why would anyone, other than a collector buy a musical instrument based on its depreciation value?

[tauzero]

Given the current state of the American economy, how long will it be before MIA Fenders are the cheap versions of Squiers?

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='XB26354' post='241739' date='Jul 17 2008, 01:39 PM']The MIA is for snobs that have to have Made in the USA on the headstock. I also got one of my students the Squier VMJ - for £250 they're seriosuly good.[/quote]


What a load of sh*t.


I own a MIA Jazz. It cost me about £650. About £250 more than a MIM.

When I A/B'd a Mex and a US, the US won hands down in every catorgory. You won't find a bassist who cares less about tone than me (or can hear the difference), but even my girlfriend who knows nothing (about anything) could pick the US jazz when blindfolded every time.

I've never played a Mex Jazz that sounds as good. There may be some out there, but I think you improve your chances of getting a quality instrument in you buy the US. To suggest I bought a US just because of a sticker on the headstock is ridiculous.

The US also has the S1 Switching that I really rate.

Thankfully, £250 isn't considerable enough to me to warrant settling for a lesser instrument.


I'm far from a brand snob. I play a second hand Peavey Firebass head, a non-brand cab and a Carlsbro Combo. I really couldn't give a sh*t what it says on the headstock (as long as its not Warwick).

It worries me that someone with such a retarded attitude is allowed to teach music????

Edited July 17, 2008 by BigBeefChief

[josh3184]

steady now, it not like he's just pissed on your chips

[noisedude]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='241820' date='Jul 17 2008, 03:31 PM']What a load of sh*t.


I own a MIA Jazz. It cost me about £650. About £250 more than a MIM.

When I A/B'd a Mex and a US, the US won hands down in every catorgory. You won't find a bassist who cares less about tone than me (or can hear the difference), but even my girlfriend who knows nothing (about anything) could pick the US jazz when blindfolded every time.

I've never played a Mex Jazz that sounds as good. There may be some out there, but I think you improve your chances of getting a quality instrument in you buy the US. To suggest I bought a US just because of a sticker on the headstock is ridiculous.

The US also has the S1 Switching that I really rate.

Thankfully, £250 isn't considerable enough to me to warrant settling for a lesser instrument.


I'm far from a brand snob. I play a second hand Peavey Firebass head, a non-brand cab and a Carlsbro Combo. I really couldn't give a sh*t what it says on the headstock (as long as its not Warwick).

It worries me that someone with such a retarded attitude is allowed to teach music????[/quote]
Ease up a little there, sunshine. It's not a "retarded attitude" because the debate over whether American Fenders are worth the cost compared to MIMs and Squiers is very real, and lots of people will decide that the extra money is, in fact, not worth it to them. There is, after all, more 'handmade' construction on a Yamaha Pacifica than any American Standard Fender.

As for teaching, well, a teacher is just another player. I wouldn't rate his opinion higher because he teaches any more than I would yours because you take pictures of yourself going topless and wearing a beret. If his advice to his students is, as it seems to be, to buy the best they can for their money by "trying a bunch and choosing the best one", then he really couldn't be doing any better by them, could he?

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='noisedude' post='241855' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:13 PM']Ease up a little there, sunshine. It's not a "retarded attitude" because the debate over whether American Fenders are worth the cost compared to MIMs and Squiers is very real, and lots of people will decide that the extra money is, in fact, not worth it to them. There is, after all, more 'handmade' construction on a Yamaha Pacifica than any American Standard Fender.

As for teaching, well, a teacher is just another player. I wouldn't rate his opinion higher because he teaches any more than I would yours because you take pictures of yourself going topless and wearing a beret. If his advice to his students is, as it seems to be, to buy the best they can for their money by "trying a bunch and choosing the best one", then he really couldn't be doing any better by them, could he?[/quote]


You're missing the point.

I agree - play lots and buy the best you can afford. If you don't think the MIA is worth it, don't buy it. I agree 100%.

This is a retarded attitude:

[b]"The MIA is for snobs that have to have Made in the USA on the headstock"[/b]


Utter sh*t. It's embarrassing.


Y'get me? (its not rocket surgery).