Students squire almost as good as my MIA Fender

[Shockwave]

This is the exact problem of making sweeping generalisations on the internet.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Stan_da_man' post='241791' date='Jul 17 2008, 02:49 PM']Another thing that gets my goat about Fender owners is that they always have to put MI"X" in their sigs has if others are just judging them on the type of Fender they own - MIA must mean it's better sounding than MIM; not necessarily. I have no intention of buyng or owning a Fender and never will.[/quote]

To be honest, I give up after the Fender bit. I just don't like them. They can be made wherever for all I care!

[Clarky]

[quote name='Jezyorkshire' post='238742' date='Jul 13 2008, 08:39 PM']A while ago i got a squire jazz bass made in china for one of my students and before giving it to him i did a bit of tweaking to get the best out of , truss rod , string height, intonation.
This weekend at his home where he has his lesson i thought i would take my fender jazz mia and my Markbass combo and see what differences there were now it had time to settle in a bit.
The Squire actually sounded better through a crap 15watt amp than my Fender and through the Markbass combo my fender was just marginally better having a little more complexity to the tone.
The neck on the Squire is better as i had to have my fender worked on by a luthier as it had a different relief on each side of the neck and the Squires neck is actually more comfortable towards the headstock.
My fender cost £800 with case and the Squire was £125 with a cardboard box, considering the differences, which one would you be happy to get knocked about in the car/van/ pub ?
It seems to my ears also that the pickups in both basses are of equal quality, so what am i paying for when i buy a mia fender?
cheers, Jez.[/quote]
If this descends into "I like Fenders, I hate Fenders" slagging off match then an interesting thread will have lost its way ... IMHO

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='Stan_da_man' post='241791' date='Jul 17 2008, 02:49 PM']Another thing that gets my goat about Fender owners is that they always have to put MI"X" in their sigs has if others are just judging them on the type of Fender they own - MIA must mean it's better sounding than MIM; not necessarily. I have no intention of buyng or owning a Fender and never will.[/quote]


Or maybe its because they're slightly different instruments?

You see just as many MIM's on sigs as MIA's. I actually think there's very little snobbery between them these days. A lot of people are proud of the fact they get an amazing sound from a MIM.

What's next? Only be able to describe basses by colour?



Sunburst
Red

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Clarky' post='241886' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:42 PM']If this descends into "I like Fenders, I hate Fenders" slagging off match then an interesting thread will have lost its way ... IMHO [/quote]

I want to like Fenders if that helps?

[EBS_freak]

PS

Walnut
Walnut
Metallic White
Cherry

[BigBeefChief]

For the record - I'm not a big Fender fan. I play one, but would play any brand (apart from Warwick) if I liked the bass.

[Machines]

My MIM Jazz is ok, needs new pickups though !

Good job I got some - am fitting some Nordstrand NJ4's in it tonight ! (Shameless plug). Other than the pickups a new neck would be nice, but only because this one was buggered by a past owner (not you 610*c !).

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='Machines' post='241893' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:48 PM']My MIM Jazz is ok, needs new pickups though !

Good job I got some - am fitting some Nordstrand NJ4's in it tonight ! (Shameless plug).[/quote]

A MIM?

Pikey.

[noisedude]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='241872' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:29 PM']You're missing the point.

I agree - play lots and buy the best you can afford. If you don't think the MIA is worth it, don't buy it. I agree 100%.

This is a retarded attitude:

[b]"The MIA is for snobs that have to have Made in the USA on the headstock"[/b]


Utter sh*t. It's embarrassing.


Y'get me? (its not rocket surgery).[/quote]
Well ... in a wider sense I still think that obsession over the country your equipment was made in borders on the friendly face of xenophobia. But in relation to Fender, there's absolutely no doubt at all that Fender trade off the MIA status of their instruments as frequently as possible. If not, why would the Highway One series exist? And why did they risk lawsuits with (and eventually have to pull) the California Series of basically Mexican instruments [i]just[/i] to have people believe they owned an 'MIA' for cheap?

Of course not everyone American Fender owner is a snob. But it is also true that 'MIA' has become a brand that people aspire to out of proportion to quality, in the same way that Gibson can complacently turn out utter tat from its American facility and people will continue to lap it up simply because it's a "real American Gibson".

Another qualifier is that there are few American-made instruments that can be bought as cheaply as American Fenders, and you can decide for yourself whether that means they're rubbish or that everyone else is ripping customers off, or neither.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Machines' post='241893' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:48 PM']My MIM Jazz is ok, needs new pickups though !

Good job I got some - am fitting some Nordstrand NJ4's in it tonight ! (Shameless plug).[/quote]

...and you'll be taking them out tomorrow. Veblen goods.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='noisedude' post='241898' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:50 PM']Well ... in a wider sense I still think that obsession over the country your equipment was made in borders on the friendly face of xenophobia. But in relation to Fender, there's absolutely no doubt at all that Fender trade off the MIA status of their instruments as frequently as possible. If not, why would the Highway One series exist? And why did they risk lawsuits with (and eventually have to pull) the California Series of basically Mexican instruments [i]just[/i] to have people believe they owned an 'MIA' for cheap?

Of course not everyone American Fender owner is a snob. But it is also true that 'MIA' has become a brand that people aspire to out of proportion to quality, in the same way that Gibson can complacently turn out utter tat from its American facility and people will continue to lap it up simply because it's a "real American Gibson".

Another qualifier is that there are few American-made instruments that can be bought as cheaply as American Fenders, and you can decide for yourself whether that means they're rubbish or that everyone else is ripping customers off, or neither. [/quote]

I'm not being negative towards Fender. I don't like Gibsons either. I'm sharing the love equally.

[noisedude]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='241907' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:53 PM']I'm not being negative towards Fender. I don't like Gibsons either. I'm sharing the love equally.[/quote]
You're very generous!!

What really interests me isn't whether the views of forward-minded bass playing chaps like us have changed, it's whether you can actually be taken seriously by any promoter or A&R man if you turn up to a gig or recording session with a Squier, Vintage, Shine, Rockbass or any other brand than Fender, Gibson or Rickenbacker (in the case of indie/rock at least)?

Edited July 17, 2008 by noisedude

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='noisedude' post='241898' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:50 PM']Well ... in a wider sense I still think that obsession over the country your equipment was made in borders on the friendly face of xenophobia. But in relation to Fender, there's absolutely no doubt at all that Fender trade off the MIA status of their instruments as frequently as possible. If not, why would the Highway One series exist? And why did they risk lawsuits with (and eventually have to pull) the California Series of basically Mexican instruments [i]just[/i] to have people believe they owned an 'MIA' for cheap?

Of course not everyone American Fender owner is a snob. But it is also true that 'MIA' has become a brand that people aspire to out of proportion to quality, in the same way that Gibson can complacently turn out utter tat from its American facility and people will continue to lap it up simply because it's a "real American Gibson".

Another qualifier is that there are few American-made instruments that can be bought as cheaply as American Fenders, and you can decide for yourself whether that means they're rubbish or that everyone else is ripping customers off, or neither. [/quote]

From this, I can't really tell if you agree with me or not??

As for the "friendly face of xenophobia" thing, I can only comment on why I chose and MIA over a MIM.

I couldn't give a sh*t if MIA stood for "Made in Africa" and MIM stood for "Made in Massachusetts". In my experience MIA's tend to be better quality than MIM's. This is what I care about.

To suggest that someone who agrees with that view is a snob is pretty f***ing stupid.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='noisedude' post='241909' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:57 PM']You're very generous!!

What really interests me isn't whether the views of forward-minded bass playing chaps like us have changed, it's whether you can actually be taken seriously by any promoter or A&R man if you turn up to a gig or recording session with a Squier, Vintage, Shine, Rockbass or any other brand than Fender, Gibson or Rickenbacker (in the case of indie/rock at least)?[/quote]

Any promoter or A&R man worth his/her salt would not even take notice.

[Machines]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='241902' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:51 PM']...and you'll be taking them out tomorrow. Veblen goods.

[/quote]

They've got to beat the stock pickups regardless .

[EBS_freak]

BigBeefChief makes your day worth living

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Machines' post='241913' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:59 PM']They've got to beat the stock pickups regardless .[/quote]

Mine lasted 3 days before being ripped out. People's tastes vary though. I found them very middley with choked top end... which suggests they had been overwound too much.

Hope they work for you though dude!

Edited July 17, 2008 by EBS_freak

[cheddatom]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='241910' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:57 PM']In my experience MIA's tend to be better quality than MIM's. This is what I care about.

To suggest that someone who agrees with that view is a snob is pretty f***ing stupid.[/quote]

Some people agree with that view because of a snobbish attitude - it does happen else no-one would buy designer clothes.

Some people agree with that view because they have played a lot of basses, and come to the same conclusion as you.

Some people disagree with that view because they have played a lot of basses, and come to the opposite conclusion as you - I prefer mexican guitars to american (fender) but I don't like their basses at all.


You wouldn't be overreacting would you?

[XB26354]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='241910' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:57 PM']From this, I can't really tell if you agree with me or not??

As for the "friendly face of xenophobia" thing, I can only comment on why I chose and MIA over a MIM.

I couldn't give a sh*t if MIA stood for "Made in Africa" and MIM stood for "Made in Massachusetts". In my experience MIA's tend to be better quality than MIM's. This is what I care about.

To suggest that someone who agrees with that view is a snob is pretty f***ing stupid.[/quote]

Charming.

People both here and on TalkBass go on about their American Fenders as anything else is somehow not the real thing. Fender cultivates this by calling the American models "American". Instruments made in Mexico, Indonesia, Korea and China are just "Fender" or "Squier".
The important part of your quote is your experience. I also do not care where the bass is made as long as it works. The fact is that the parts in a US p-bass make up a very small part of the retail price, and believe me when I say that American Fenders can have variable quality just like Fenders/Squiers made in other countries.

Oh, and you could try being civil on an anonymous Internet forum - just because you disagree with someone's point of view doesn't give you licence to be rude, no matter what your username is...

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='241929' date='Jul 17 2008, 05:16 PM']Some people agree with that view because of a snobbish attitude - it does happen else no-one would buy designer clothes.

Some people agree with that view because they have played a lot of basses, and come to the same conclusion as you.

Some people disagree with that view because they have played a lot of basses, and come to the opposite conclusion as you - I prefer mexican guitars to american (fender) but I don't like their basses at all.


You wouldn't be overreacting would you?[/quote]

Chedda - you know I only have 2 settings: f***ing stupid or f***ing aggressive.


I have no issue with people prefering MIM's. Thats not my point.

I agree that some people will by an MIA for the wrong reasons (snobbery?). Thats not my point.

I have an issue with the view that the only reason you would buy an MIA is becuase you are a snob (as stated previously).

Thats my point.

I think.

[clauster]

Just to settle this once and for all, the best Fenders are CIJ!


(runs for cover)

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='XB26354' post='241931' date='Jul 17 2008, 05:16 PM']Oh, and you could try being civil on an anonymous Internet forum - just because you disagree with someone's point of view doesn't give you licence to be rude, no matter what your username is...[/quote]


I don't disagree with your view that quality varies and that for some, an MIA is not worth the extra cash.

I disagree with the retarded statement that you made.

As for being rude, as an MIA owner, you infered I was a snob.



Snob or retard? Not sure which I'd prefer really.

[Clarky]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='241947' date='Jul 17 2008, 05:26 PM']I don't disagree with your view that quality varies and that for some, an MIA is not worth the extra cash.

I disagree with the retarded statement that you made.

As for being rude, as an MIA owner, you infered I was a snob.



Snob or retard? Not sure which I'd prefer really.[/quote]
Where is the love?

All together now, sod off Clarky!

[noisedude]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='241910' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:57 PM']From this, I can't really tell if you agree with me or not??[/quote]
I'm somewhere in between.
[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='241910' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:57 PM']As for the "friendly face of xenophobia" thing, I can only comment on why I chose and MIA over a MIM.

I couldn't give a sh*t if MIA stood for "Made in Africa" and MIM stood for "Made in Massachusetts". In my experience MIA's tend to be better quality than MIM's. This is what I care about.

To suggest that someone who agrees with that view is a snob is pretty f***ing stupid.[/quote]
That wasn't the view, though. The view he said was snobbish was the one whereby somebody wants the MIA because it is MIA and therefore 'must' be better.

On another tack, it has been my experience on internet forums that in the YooEssAy in particular there is still a lot of residual, well, suspicion of 'foreign' guitars. It's not because a Chinese guitar is by definition lower quality (because that's obviously nonsense), but by talking about 'Far Eastern' build quality you can avoid the underlying issue where the average hick from Tennessee won't buy anything from that close to 'Nam.

Which seems to me to be just as ignorant as saying "it's made in America, so it must be better".