UglyDog Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1397344913' post='2423122'] Are any of the people who want to overturn the ban willing to stump up all legal fees and take responsibility for defending the site, or do you just expect the mods to do it for you? [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1397483843' post='2424336'] Would those same volunteers also put it in writing, witnessed and legal that they would be fully liable to BC for any losses, damage and costs involved if one of them made a mistake in his diagnosis of real or fake which led to either legal action from JH or a shut down of the site? I can't believe that there are still BCers gnawing on this bone when it should be obvious what the issue is and have done with it. [/quote] 5 pages back I asked a genuine and honest question. As yet nobody has pointed out where it has been brought up time and again, (after the original thread was put up). I also asked the Mods to delete if inappropriate. Is it really "gnawing the bone" asking if there is any change in opinions after about a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehux Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 "Running over the same old ground, what have we found, the same old fears, wish you were here" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1397485139' post='2424356']Is it really "gnawing the bone" asking if there is any change in opinions after about a year? [/quote] Well, as has already been pointed out, JH frequents the Rickresource forum. You could go there and ask him if he's changed his mind yet about going for soft targets. OR - if you're volunteering your services as the safety net for any legal consequences you could sign on the dotted line for BC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1397469668' post='2424120'] I find it incredible that at least 20 years after the internet went mainstream the people who use it are still largely ignorant of how it works. [/quote] To be perfectly honest, I don't understand how a telephone works, let alone the internet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1397485139' post='2424356'] Is it really "gnawing the bone" asking if there is any change in opinions after about a year? [/quote] Asking the question again after about a year is more like licking the bone and may be fair enough. The gnawing starts when the simple 'no' seems too difficult for some people to understand. Edited April 14, 2014 by flyfisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofio Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 This has all blown out of proportion to be honest. it is getting nonsensical now. common sense is the key. when folks start going on about legal fee's etc it is a nonsense. John Hall likes to Bark that is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1397486753' post='2424371'] To be perfectly honest, I don't understand how a telephone works, let alone the internet.... [/quote] Excellent! I love it when I find common ground with other BC-ers. Personally, I put plugs into all the empty sockets in my house so as to avoid having the electricity dripping out and ruining the carpets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='geofio' timestamp='1397487112' post='2424381'] This has all blown out of proportion to be honest. it is getting nonsensical now. common sense is the key. when folks start going on about legal fee's etc it is a nonsense. John Hall likes to Bark that is it. [/quote] So are you going to put [i][b]YOUR[/b][/i] money where your mouth is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='geofio' timestamp='1397487112' post='2424381']when folks start going on about legal fee's etc it is a nonsense. John Hall likes to Bark that is it.[/quote] How very dare you! A Rick fan-boy saying John Hall is barking!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) Would it be down to the owners of the site if someone did advertise a fake bass ? I doubt it, it'd be the responsibility of the seller. That's why Ebay and Gumtree and Talkbass allow the genuine basses to be advertised. If anyone tries to pass off a fake as a real one then that's fraud, regardless of anything else like copyright. It's like people sell vintage Fender basses on here, you only have the word of the seller that it is indeed a genuine one. Fakes are soon spotted. Edited April 14, 2014 by ambient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1397487675' post='2424394'] Would it be down to the owners of the site if someone did advertise a fake bass ? I doubt it, it'd be the responsibility of the seller. [/quote] You might be right, you might be wrong - but either way it's not relevant because the only way to really find out would be to contest any action that JH might bring. BC doesn't want that hassle. Not even the risk of it. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1397487675' post='2424394'] Would it be down to the owners of the site if someone did advertise a fake bass ? I doubt it, it'd be the responsibility of the seller. [/quote] Ebay & Gumtree remove listings for Fakers because if they do not, they can be accused of facilitating the sale of counterfeit goods. The same would happen if BC allowed the sale of Fakers, which is why this part of the ban is 100% appropriate. What's not appropriate, or indeed in any way sane or logical is to extend that ban to authentic instruments, just in case a copy got listed by mistake. As I have said numerous times, the differences between copies & genuine Ricks are clear, obvious, and easily recognisable. Anyone with a good level of experience with either, or both, would be able to tell them apart, just like the good folks on RickResource can. The main differences are so fundamental that no amount of customisation or modification could change them. What's the problem everyone has with this? J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397492264' post='2424447']As I have said numerous times, the differences between copies & genuine Ricks are clear, obvious, and easily recognisable. J. [/quote] Brave words! So - are you going to volunteer to be legally liable for all losses and costs suffered by BC if JH sues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) Much of this debate has been about BC justifying its position. Let's try the shoe on the other foot. Anyone who wants to buy and sell a Ric can easily do so using other forums. The trade in Rics proceeds unhindered. No one is remotely disadvantaged and it's not even much of an inconvenience. So why should BC should consider changing its position? Edited April 14, 2014 by skankdelvar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Speaking as someone who did sell a rockinbetter, and has had the trouble dealing with Mr Halls company I think the position here is exactly the right one, it is not worth the hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I read every post of this topic in half hour. Do i get a prize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='timmo' timestamp='1397497290' post='2424515'] I read every post of this topic in half hour. Do i get a prize? [/quote] Take the BassChat Challenge: Read every post in [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/209184-vote-on-rickenbacker-content-on-basschat/"]this[/url] topic in half an hour and win a box of aspirin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1397493382' post='2424465'] Brave words! So - are you going to volunteer to be legally liable for all losses and costs suffered by BC if JH sues? [/quote] They're not "brave words" - it's a simple fact. Hall wouldn't sue because selling a legitimate Rickenbacker is 100% legal in every way. The man might like to bluff and bluster but that doesn't make him an idiot. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397498062' post='2424527'] They're not "brave words" - it's a simple fact. Hall wouldn't sue because selling a legitimate Rickenbacker is 100% legal in every way. The man might like to bluff and bluster but that doesn't make him an idiot. J. [/quote] You're not answering the question - if it's as easy as you say & so confident that Hall is bluffing - are YOU going to be the one that carries the official legal responsibility of authenticating every "Rick" that is offered for sale on here - IF it was to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1397498328' post='2424531'] You're not answering the question - if it's as easy as you say & so confident that Hall is bluffing - are YOU going to be the one that carries the official legal responsibility of authenticating every "Rick" that is offered for sale on here - IF it was to happen? [/quote] I've already said I'd be happy to be involved in a vetting/authentication process. I don't know how "legal responsibility" would work in this context but I'm sufficiently confident in my knowledge of Rickenbackers & the various copies not to consider that to be a risk. And again I'll ask - why on Earth would Hall take action over the sale of a genuine used Rickenbacker? This is all rather irrelevant, I've been discussing this with a mod via PM and it ain't gonna happen, whatever anyone says. Shame in a way I suppose - Ricks might be the most Marmite of basses but they're historically important, intersting and desirable to a lot of people. I've always had GAS for an early 70s checked bound/full-width inlays/toaster/wavy Grovers 4001 in naturally darkened Fireglo - and BC is the only place I'd trust to get a decent one at a sane price, if I ever went mad enough to go for it. And no - no-one ever made a copy with this exact spec. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmachine2112 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 They were always overpriced on here. You get better deals on chinese sites. Like to see him try to sue them in China Oh and by the way I,ve still got a hipshot bridge fitted.Shock-horror -fancy that,trying to give yourself an easy life. Ban stays in my book,pity other people didn,t/don,t feel the same. Right I,m putting my fire retardent suit on now and helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397499563' post='2424547']I've already said I'd be happy to be involved in a vetting/authentication process[/quote] Yes, but would you be willing to be [b][i]the[/i][/b] one, because you consider it to be so easy, to carry the can IF JH carried out his threats of legal action against BC if your self-confidence is mis-placed and you - as sole responsibility - do let a rogue copy appear on here. [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397499563' post='2424547']I don't know how "legal responsibility" would work in this context[/quote] Simple, you (or the others who want the facility but none of the responsibility) are so confident of your own knowledge that you in effect sign a blank cheque for BC to defend any action JH might bring, should you be wrong and let a bootleg Rick appear in "for sale". [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397499563' post='2424547']And again I'll ask - why on Earth would Hall take action over the sale of a genuine used Rickenbacker?[/quote] No-one has said he would - but he would take action in the above two scenarios, you don't think he would - you could well be wrong. [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397499563' post='2424547']I've been discussing this with a mod via PM and it ain't gonna happen[/quote] Lucky you! You nearly talked yourself into a very precarious legal position there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397499563' post='2424547']no-one ever made a copy with this exact spec. J.[/quote] No - John Birch's were far better - which IIRC was what got JH's back up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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