First 'classical' gig on electric bass!! A valuable learning point!

[Bilbo]

I had an interesting learning experience this weekend. I did a ‘classical’ gig for the first time in my life (let’s avoid the debate about what is and is not ‘classical). I was called for a gig doing the fretless bass parts for a local performance of Karl Jenkins’ ‘The Peacemakers’ at The Apex Theatre in Bury St Edmunds. The ensemble was 16 pieces (violins, violas, cellos, double bass (not me), organ, flute, 3x percussionist) and a 60-piece chorus. The chorus were pretty good from where I was sat (right in front of them in the middle!!) and it was great to sit in amongst the ‘orchestra’ and hear the whole thing from a perspective from which I had never heard it before. I had never heard a choral work in real life and it was an amazing experience.

The piece has 16 different movements (that may be the wrong word) and I think I nailed 13 of them but the three I got wrong have been bugging me. One was a knuckle cruncher which comprised an unreadable chart with occasional bars of 16th notes that changed clef back on forth half way through and required specific fingerings that meant there was (arguably) only one way to execute it, a fingering that was un-natural (it was Laurence Cottle on the recording). To address the problem, I ‘learned’ the part in advance. Trouble was, after a single ropey rehearsal of the piece that afternoon, on the gig the conductor counted it about 30% faster than both the rehearsal and the recording so it kind of fell apart from bar one. The wreck that followed will haunt me for the rest of my life but, at the end of the day, nobody died.

The other two I was unhappy with were for a reason that had never occurred to me until I was actually there doing it. I have never had any training with a classical conductor. I have done shows where a conductor is present but, given the nature of the role of the bass in most show charts, it is all pretty conventional stuff: come in on beat one, occasional doubling etc. With this classical stuff, you have to be able to count 86 bars of silence and, because, with these two movements, the bass part was essentially a melodic one, play these three notes in what was, from where I was standing, the middle of nowhere. The conductor thinks he is helping me by waving at me at what is clearly the appropriate time but, to be blunt, I have no perspective on his arm movements and, despite his semaphore, have not got the remotest idea where these three notes are supposed to be played.

This is where my learning point came (and I go all hot and sweaty thinking about it). I guessed and got it wrong . In a nutshell, I learned that ‘If you don’t know where that beautiful three note part should be played, DON’T PLAY IT!!’ Better missed than played in the wrong place.

To round the night of perfectly, however, I had the surreal experience of bumping into Terry Waite in the corridors backstage. He was lost and asked if I could point him to the soloists dressing room. I said I was lost too! He laughed and said ‘why do they make these places so confusing?’ to which I replied ‘Have you see the movie ‘Spinal Tap’.

He said ‘No’.

[Prime_BASS]

Sounds like it was a positive experience for you and I'm envious of you for that.

In regards to the three notes in the middle of nowhere, I have literally no experience in playing with an orchestra outside of school (which was 8 years ago) but you'd have to be a lot stricter with yourself and forcibly count everything, if it's in front of you it be easier cause at least you have something of meaning to follow. But then again I don't read either.

Im guilty of plain not counting, even when I play in the band and all songs are just 4/4 I still get that wrong haha.

[allighatt0r]

I live 5 minutes from the Apex, I keep meaning to go in and see some of the stuff in there, it seems like they have some really interesting and varied acts in there.

Seems like you did well considering lack of classical experience!

[Tom Brookes Music]

One of my percussionist mates did a classical gig once where he had two cymbol hits in the entire piece and bottled both of them :-)

[Graham]

This might make you feel better, Dave Mustaine of Megadeth playing with the the San Diego Symphony Orchestra recently.........he's played better

http://youtu.be/6sHwxjkGQcU

Edited April 14, 2014 by Graham

[ambient]

Wow, what an experience.

I've been playing through a lot of classical cello scores recently to improve my sight-reading and the general nuances of my playing. They are hard ! So much information in them, and so much silence too

I really admire you for having played one with an orchestra.

Did you find it awkward intonation wise ?

I played a theatre show a few years ago with a cellist. She was used to playing with other cellists and gauging her intonation from them.

Laurence is a visiting tutor at my college, and an amazing player.

Anyway, I just ordered the original album from amazon.

[lojo]

Way above my intellect and class, but it sounds like you are enjoying yourself and learning loads, long may it continue for you.

[Bilbo]

Yes it was awkward intonation wise. I said to myself whilst playing that it woudl be easier if I got to start each phrase at least twice!! There were a couple of moments when I was doubling some other part (a vocal here, a violin part there) and then it was much easier but when you were surrounded by a wash of strings, the intonation was a little less sure-footed.

The main deal breaker was a tune called 'One Song'. It is available on Spotify. Have a listen to the line Cottle is playing. It was called in too fast and, whilst I can play the part, getting it tight with the other ensemble players proved really difficult (the percussionists weren't what you call 'groovin'' )

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1397465813' post='2424049']
The other two I was unhappy with were for a reason that had never occurred to me until I was actually there doing it. I have never had any training with a classical conductor. I have done shows where a conductor is present but, given the nature of the role of the bass in most show charts, it is all pretty conventional stuff: come in on beat one, occasional doubling etc. With this classical stuff, you have to be able to count 86 bars of silence and, because, with these two movements, the bass part was essentially a melodic one, play these three notes in what was, from where I was standing, the middle of nowhere. The conductor thinks he is helping me by waving at me at what is clearly the appropriate time but, to be blunt, I have no perspective on his arm movements and, despite his semaphore, have not got the remotest idea where these three notes are supposed to be played.
[/quote]

Surely this is why you read music? So you can count the blank bars and beats on your score until the part you need to play comes in?

[ambient]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1397560727' post='2425097']
Surely this is why you read music? So you can count the blank bars and beats on your score until the part you need to play comes in?
[/quote]

Yes, but it really takes absolute concentration and confidence, was that 77 bars or 78, so this 79 and I come in on the next one. When there's a lot going on it's really hard. It's not like there's drums, vocals and guitar playing and you think, right I come in after the next chorus.

Edited April 15, 2014 by ambient

[BigRedX]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1397560923' post='2425101']
Yes, but it really takes absolute concentration and confidence, was that 77 bars or 78, so this 79 and I come in on the next one. When there's a lot going on it's really hard.
[/quote]

But isn't that skill the reason why a particular musician gets the part?

Alternatively you could just do what all those of us who don't read do and just learn the piece?

[ambient]

The piece is about 70 minutes long, it'd be tough to memorise that.

.

[pete.young]

Sometimes the score is divided into sections: instead of having a cue at bar 79, it might be the 4th bar of section G. If you can use the rehearsal to identify and memorise the start of 'G' , you don't need to count the preceding 75 bars.

[Zenitram]

I have sat in on pit performances of Matilda the Musical, just watching the band, for fun. The one time I did it back in Stratford, so long ago now, when it was "Matilda, a Musical" in the tin shed that is/was the Courtyard, when it was just a wee little show made with love and sellotape, I was amazed to watch the interaction between the MD's conducting, with that typical waving of the arms to more or less indicate a beat, and how the different musicians all interpreted those movements in different ways, due, they said afterwards, to the peculiarities of their particular instrument (cello, horns, flute, drums, etc.). To me it [i]looked[/i] an absolute chaos, and I couldn't follow any of it, but it [i]sounded[/i] perfect.

Music really is a foreign language.

[Bilbo]

Counting 78 bars is easy when the piece is familiar and the parts are strong but, sometimes, as on some of the parts of this suite, difficulties are caused when there are long passages without any apparent rhythm and a lot of textural stuff including changes of bar lengths from 4:4 to 3:4 to 2:4 and nothing to hang it all on. Sometimes the parts are annotated with 'warning' parts telling you that the flute plays X two bars before you come in. Then it is easier. It is when the only indicator of when to come in is the waving!! The practice seems to be to indicate beats with the UP movement of the arm not the down and to indicate when you come in one beat before you do, unlike a jazz conductor who would indicate the beat that you actually play. Also the classical approach is to wave gently whereas the jazz MDs I have worked with tend to be stronger in their actions. I am sure the protocols are perfectly routine when you know them but I didn't. That was my point.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1397465813' post='2424049']...you have to be able to count 86 bars of silence and, because, with these two movements, the bass part was essentially a melodic one, play these three notes in what was, from where I was standing, the middle of nowhere...[/quote]
[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1397572551' post='2425254']...Sometimes the parts are annotated with 'warning' parts telling you that the flute plays X two bars before you come in...[/quote]

Yes, it would help if you could obtain the score of another instrument that plays through, and follow [i]that[/i], rather than your empty bars. It doesn't have to be sight-read to perfection, only enough to follow the timing of when your 3 notes slot in to the canvas. A fluo marker can help to make the 'warning' passage stand out. A few rehearsals help, too. It sounds as if these were somewhat lacking.
Well done, just the same. Makes a change from rock'n'roll, eh..?

[Bilbo]

Just emailed Cottle. He read the session cold. Kudos to him.

[thisnameistaken]

Console yourself in the knowledge that 99.9% of us would've destroyed the entire thing.

The Terry Waite anecdote was an inspired inclusion and made for a brilliantly appropriate and yet ironic denouement.

[gjones]

The moral of this tale is, when in doubt.........do nowt.

[Bilbo]

Ironic denouement is my speciality!!

[Thurbs]

It sounds like a great experiance, one I would like to achieve in the future.

What I guess is different is unless you are trained up the "classical" route, then you have missed the hundreds of smaller ensambles, gradually working up to a large one like this.

I was in York Minster last week for some sight seeing and managed to stumble upon a simular rehearsal. A large throng of voices is quite magical to experiance really close up. It is a shame I couldnt stay for the performance for real.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1397655908' post='2426126']I was in York Minster last week for some sight seeing and managed to stumble upon a simular rehearsal. A large throng of voices is quite magical to experiance really close up. It is a shame I couldnt stay for the performance for real.[/quote]

Good timing, the Minster is an amazing room for vocals, it sounds lush! I live just down the street from the Minster.