First time playing originals. How different is this !!

[tonybassplayer]

Decided to take a break a couple of months ago from playing covers in bands for the last ten years and had a bit of a break but found I just wasn't using my bass at all and needed to do something rather than just let it fade.

I responded to an advert from a local guy to me who was just getting back in to his music and wanted to add another dimension to the songs he had written so we met last week and I am working on basslines etc to add to the songs. Hope to take a few out live soon to open mics etc.

Never had to do this before so it's opening my eyes as to what is possible and also what my limitations are with regarding to inventing new bass lines.

So so different than learning cover songs and really getting in to it. Even bought a fretless to try add something different.

Will post something up when we get some recordings done.

[JTUK]

It is a discipline like everything else.... so you will fine plenty of original bass guys ( and players )
that can't play Covers gigs as they don't have the discipline in their playing to do so.... and conversly
if someone has always learnt songs note for note, they can't pay outside of that 'direction'

I think it is a good idea to put yourself the opposite position than you normally inhabit as this
makes you a more rounded player as well. IMO

[Prime_BASS]

I for one can't stand playing covers. I get bored pretty quick even playing to songs at home.
For me playing bass is just as much about writing than just playing.

But JTUK has a good point, I don't have the discipline to play to a given song, the urge to play out is too strong.

[JellyKnees]

Good on you. Playing covers is fine as far as it goes, and it's a great way to help you develop when learning to play, but I think the real joy of music is in the creative process. And yes, I know you can come up with ideas for covers to put your own stamp on them, but it's just not the same as starting with a blank sheet of paper as it were.

[EssentialTension]

I've never understood this claimed distinction between playing covers and playing originals. I just like music.

[JTUK]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1397469172' post='2424109']
I've never understood this claimed distinction between playing covers and playing originals. I just like music.
[/quote]

Yep... shouldn't be a problem but it really is for a lot of people.
A really competent Gtr player in Grundge, for example, can't 'handle'
"Sweet Home Alabama"... ( I'm thinking . ) and plenty of vocalists only really excel in
one genre. They tend to be screamers who can't sing so give them a 'tune'
and they sink.. There is not a lot you can do about that vocally, but you can
with instruments much more easily.
So, ducking and diving between genres is generally a good thing, IMO
altho there are some that need more empathy...and are harder to bluff with any
conviction.

[JellyKnees]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1397469172' post='2424109']
I've never understood this claimed distinction between playing covers and playing originals. I just like music.
[/quote]

You see no absolutely difference between playing a line someone else wrote 40 years ago and a line that you came up with yourself? Really? I'm not claiming one thing is inherently 'better' than the other by the way.

[ahpook]

"This is a cover of one of of our own songs"

Julian Cope onstage with Teardrop Explodes.

[Coilte]

Interesting topic, as I have had some recent experience of auditioning for an originals band myself. I have always liked playing covers which BTW does not have to mean playing note for note form the original. That is what "Tribute" bands are for. It is possible and very rewarding to take a song and put your own stamp on it.

Granted, without anyone writing originals there would be no new music coming on stream. It is just that the majority of original stuff (especially in "Rock") I have come across does absolutely nothing for me. The originals band I applied to join, sent me some demos. Sounded quite bland and boring to me. Could I have written better ? Possibly not, but the point remains. I can however, see the advantage of playing originals, in that you are starting with a blank canvas and have a chance to come up with something that [u]you [/u]thought of, be that bland or otherwise.

Perhaps at some stage I will join an originals band. For now, I am quite happy playing covers.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1397469172' post='2424109']
I've never understood this claimed distinction between playing covers and playing originals. I just like music.
[/quote]

If you play in an originals band and are told exactly what bassline to play then I'd agree, because there would be no thinking involved in either case. But to my mind, the difference is usually that you get to invent the bassline, it's YOUR creation, not someone else's. It's the difference between reading a book or writing a book. It's creative rather than just reproduction.

Edited April 14, 2014 by flyfisher

[Tom Brookes Music]

There's definitely a difference between being in an originals band and a covers band imo. I'm the bassist and main songwriter in my originals band, and the guitarist in my covers band. Like others have mentioned, playing note for note recreations of someone elses songs only has a limited appeal to me.....,I do have the discipline to do it, but don't want to! Hence in my covers band we're playing blues/jazz/funk versions of mainly old standards. Being in an originals band is much harder work imo.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1397469172' post='2424109']
I've never understood this claimed distinction between playing covers and playing originals. I just like music.
[/quote]
[quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1397471678' post='2424137']
You see no absolutely difference between playing a line someone else wrote 40 years ago and a line that you came up with yourself? Really? I'm not claiming one thing is inherently 'better' than the other by the way.
[/quote]I
That's not what I said, read it again.

But if only life were as simple as your response.

I don't understand the claimed distinction, in this way: Let's imagine my band is playing a song written by Jimmy Cox in 1923. It's called [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobody_Knows_You_When_You%27re_Down_and_Out"]Nobody Knows You[/url]. This song has been recorded I don't know how may times and has been played in live situations even more times with a mighty variety of arrangements and instrumentations. Our live version is vocal, backing vocal, acoustic guitar, electric piano, upright bass, drums. Our recorded version also features electric lap steel guitar. We play it our way with our arrangement but the melody and lyrics are Jimmy Cox and even those have been tempered by the decades. Now, were we influenced by other versions? I expect so because I, for one, have been listening to that song in one arrangement or another for close on fifty years.

Now let's imagine my band's singer writes a song, i.e. a set of words with a melody. I'll put a bass line to his melody just as I did to the Jimmy Cox song. As regards either song there may be some discussion as to whether what I am doing works effectively - similarly for the other players - but either way I am playing someone else's song and yet in both cases I have my own bassline (subject to the views of the rest of the band).

As for playing a line 'someone else wrote 40 years ago', I would agree that those can sometimes be distinguished from 'a line that you came up with yourself' in that if it's a better line - especially in the sense of the bass line having become a clear characteristic of the song (alongside its lyrics and melody) - then I would definitely play it and be very pleased to do so. However, even in such a case, if the band were wholly rearranging the song then while some change to the bassline could well be warranted, it might still not be essential:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EPwRdVg5Ug[/media]

But either way, very good luck and lots of fun to the OP whatever you are playing.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Tom Brookes Music' timestamp='1397475530' post='2424189']
Being in an originals band is much harder work imo.
[/quote]

I think it depends very much on the band. I quit my covers band last year because it was simply far too much work for too little reward.

The fee per gig that we were getting might have been more than my originals band but by the time we'd detected all our expenses and the amount of extra time it took to set up and break down the lights and PA etc. I was actually coming away with a better hourly rate playing originals.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1397475104' post='2424181']
If you play in an originals band and are told exactly what bassline to play then I'd agree, because there would be no thinking involved in either case. But to my mind, the difference is usually that you get to invent the bassline, it's YOUR creation, not someone else's. It's the difference between reading a book or writing a book. It's creative rather than just reproduction.
[/quote]
I apologize for being an argumentative git but ...

Rather than 'no thinking involved', when I was in a so-called 'originals' band where I was told exactly what to play (because all the parts were written) I had to think a great deal in order to play things I would not have naturally played. I learned more playing in that band than I had from any band I had played in previously.

As for creativity, while I have nothing against it as such, I'd say that it is often extremely overrated. Better to read a good book than write a rubbish one.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1397475845' post='2424196']
I think it depends very much on the band....
[/quote]
This.

Not all so-called 'originals' bands are the same - some of them are not very original for a start - and there is more than one way of playing so-called 'covers'.

[JellyKnees]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1397475793' post='2424195']
I
That's not what I said, read it again.

But if only life were as simple as your response.

I don't understand the claimed distinction, in this way: Let's imagine my band is playing a song written by Jimmy Cox in 1923. It's called [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobody_Knows_You_When_You%27re_Down_and_Out"]Nobody Knows You[/url]. This song has been recorded I don't know how may times and has been played in live situations even more times with a mighty variety of arrangements and instrumentations. Our live version is vocal, backing vocal, acoustic guitar, electric piano, upright bass, drums. Our recorded version also features electric lap steel guitar. We play it our way with our arrangement but the melody and lyrics are Jimmy Cox and even those have been tempered by the decades. Now, were we influenced by other versions? I expect so because I, for one, have been listening to that song in one arrangement or another for close on fifty years.

Now let's imagine my band's singer writes a song, i.e. a set of words with a melody. I'll put a bass line to his melody just as I did to the Jimmy Cox song. As regards either song there may be some discussion as to whether what I am doing works effectively - similarly for the other players - but either way I am playing someone else's song and yet in both cases I have my own bassline (subject to the views of the rest of the band).

As for playing a line 'someone else wrote 40 years ago', I would agree that those can sometimes be distinguished from 'a line that you came up with yourself' in that if it's a better line - especially in the sense of the bass line having become a clear characteristic of the song (alongside its lyrics and melody) - then I would definitely play it and be very pleased to do so. However, even in such a case, if the band were wholly rearranging the song then while some change to the bassline could well be warranted, it might still not be essential:
[/quote]

Well, I think I kind of covered that in my previous comment tbh. Kudos to those that don't, but the majority of covers bands I've heard over the years (all ALL tribute bands by definition) play pretty much by rote.

I'm glad to hear you have nothing against creativity though

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1397476581' post='2424218']
I'm glad to hear you have nothing against creativity though
[/quote]
To be honest, sometimes I do.

[Coilte]

[quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1397476581' post='2424218']
I'm glad to hear you have nothing against creativity though
[/quote]

That would depend on the "creation" itself.

[JTUK]

Note for note copy is good to nail..as some of the lines are pretty difficult so that is good for honing technique
but that should not be as far as you go..and unfortunately, that is as far as some go. oh well...!!
Getting beyond someone else's....possibly iconic line .. is a goal but you'll not likely get much thanks or recognition
for it.... oh well..!!
Writing your own line if you don't have too much playing time..is going to be limiting, as there is a lot you just
don't know. Of course, some make it work, and some don't ever get any further ..or may not need to.

You'll be surprised how many people can't play much outside of the genre that they spend the most time in... oh well..!!

You do what you do, and if you don't ever want to move from that space, then that is a personal choice.
If you have a blank canvas for originals, and get to do what you want, then fine...the harder part comes in
when someone suggests you change it ..and then it may be a question of the right tools/knowledge.

Good music is good music...

[cheddatom]

I've seen original bands who really should have been covers bands!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1397475845' post='2424196']
I think it depends very much on the band. I quit my covers band last year because it was simply far too much work for too little reward.

The fee per gig that we were getting might have been more than my originals band but by the time we'd detected all our expenses and the amount of extra time it took to set up and break down the lights and PA etc. I was actually coming away with a better hourly rate playing originals.
[/quote]

I agree with this. When I was younger, I joined a band who started doing covers, but then wrote 4-5 songs of their own. You know what, their own songs were really good. The vocalist was a typical high maintenance indie swagger type guy, brillliant voice though. He could play about 10 guitar chords and wrote some stunning songs...so simple yet....well, right....

I was 15/16, earnt a fair bit for my age, but realised I had to play my own music. Took a huge break from covers bands.

A few years back I joined up with an old friend and we played around our hometown whilst I was waiting for a new job to start. It was fun, I admit it, but only because we knew each other. The money was pretty poor, as it seems most bands seem to get now in small towns. We played the odd wedding and I still didn't think the fee was worth it.

In between all of that, I've played in 'originals' bands, and it is incredibly fun writing, gigging, and that FINAL piece of recording and nailing it. A lot of fun, especially when the recording chaps noted how the basslines suddenly got much better when I joined the band.

I've had a lot of fun on the way, and not earnt much from originals bands, but then again, money isn't it for me. Maybe it will be when I'm older, but to be quite honest, my day job is for money, and music is for sheer fun.

Covers can be great to get technique sorted and learn new genres, but I prefer writing with a band from scratch and that is what I'm concentrating on now.

If I was offered or found the right covers band, I would do it again, but I'm not playing local pubs for £50-70 each then spending half of that on strings/transport/a few pints. No point.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Musicman20

[Telebass]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1397469172' post='2424109']
I've never understood this claimed distinction between playing covers and playing originals. I just like music.
[/quote]
Snap.

[Dad3353]

Just to muddy the waters, how does the term 'standards' fit in this debate..? I've played in wholly originals groups, entirely 'covers' bands, and in variety bands. Are 'standards' considered as 'covers', or original..? 'Summertime'..? 'In the Mood'..? 'Don't Get Around Much Any More'..? 'The Look of Love'..? There's tons of jazz or light music 'standards' that are the bread and butter of variety/swing/jazz formations; are they counted as 'original' (in that they're mostly entirely re-arranged...), or are they 'covers' (even though no-one has ever played 'em that way...)..?
For my part, I take the distinction to be worthless, excepting for 'tribute' bands who actually try to conform to than original version. Most 'original' bands I (used to...) go to see would, themselves, highly modify and interpret their own repertoire. When my present group do Bowie, or The Floyd, we're far from the original, and yet we're a 'covers' band. It's all too grey, I feel.
Do orchestral musicians play 'covers', too, maybe..? Yet another version of Schubert's 9th..? Ho hum; the players must be bored numb, or unable to improvise or write their own lines..? I think not.

[EssentialTension]

Many years ago I was playing in a 'mostly originals' (for want of a better phrase) blues rock three piece. At one gig - where alongside our own songs we did play rearrangements of, IIRC, a Hendrix song, a Willie Newbern song, and a Robert Parker song - as we came off stage a punter says to me: 'That was great.'

Me: 'Thanks a lot.'
Punter: 'Have you always been a tribute band?'
Me: 'Tribute band? What makes you say that?'
Punter: 'You played a Hendrix song.'
Me: 'Er .. yes ... so?'
Punter: 'So you're a Hendrix tribute band.'
Me: 'Er... no.'

I'm guessing that he was unfamiliar with Willie Newbern and Robert Parker or we would have been labelled a triple tribute band.

[cclowend]

I have always played originals. I just don't get the covers thing. I know there is money to be made but I just do not see the point. Its great that people are playing but if you are capable of playing, say, stairway to heaven.......then you have enough fretboard knowledge to make your own music.