First time playing originals. How different is this !!

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1397476329' post='2424205']Better to read a good book than write a rubbish one.[/quote]

If you don't finish the rubbish one you'll never write a good one.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1397513885' post='2424778']
If you don't finish the rubbish one you'll never write a good one.
[/quote]
... and you're more likely to write a good one if you've read some good ones.

[tonybassplayer]

Just had a couple of hours working some bits out for tomorrow's rehearsal and quite pleased so far.

All the lines are very basic at the moment as I am getting used to the chord structures and the format of the songs etc but better to play something simple and solid first then elaborate ( if required ) later I believe.

If nothing else it has definitely got me playing more and buying equipment ( collected new practice amp today, fretless arriving Thursday and looking for something effects related at the moment )

Tony

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='tonybassplayer' timestamp='1397515929' post='2424819']
Just had a couple of hours working some bits out for tomorrow's rehearsal and quite pleased so far.

All the lines are very basic at the moment as I am getting used to the chord structures and the format of the songs etc but better to play something simple and solid first then elaborate ( if required ) later I believe.

If nothing else it has definitely got me playing more and buying equipment ( collected new practice amp today, fretless arriving Thursday and looking for something effects related at the moment )

Tony
[/quote]
Very good.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1397515068' post='2424804']... and you're more likely to write a good one if you've read some good ones.[/quote]

To get back to music rather than continue with an analogy:

I doubt there is anybody playing in originals bands who hasn't sat down and worked out some of their favourite bass parts from other peoples' records. I've only ever played originals but I've certainly spent time at home, especially when I was younger, working out other peoples' bass parts.

The point is that some people eventually began having their own ideas.

[cclowend]

The book analogy is a good one. There are thousands of good books out there that have never been read. A sad state. Also, if a book has already been written, why write it again?

[thisnameistaken]

There are some better bass players than us, so what's the point in us? We should stop playing now.

[BigRedX]

Some observations:

None of us were awesome players the first time we picked up the bass. Why should our first attempts at song writing be any different? Just like you had to practice to learn how to be a competent player you have to work at being a decent songwriter.

Don't spent too much time getting bogged down in chord structures when writing your bass lines. Listen to the whole piece and what all the individual instruments are doing. A well crafted and arranged song will have a natural space for the bass part and the tune of it will become apparent after you've heard it a few times.

You don't have to learn how to play other people's songs to be inspired. You just have to hear them. I spend a lot of time listening to music for pleasure or for inspiration, but I've only ever worked out how to play them if I have a direct need (when I was playing in a covers band). I find that my time is better spent working on my own ideas rather than consciously regurgitating someone else's.

[JTUK]

Whereas I will put on music all the time and hear a few things that make me pick up and the bass and play along.
It may only just be something I'm doing in the same key so I am more interested in the groove going on than the tune.

I have always played along and continue to do so to this day... just that I am more capable of doing my thing rather than their thing.
So, in a Covers band, I'll do the same but tone it down somewhat as I accept there are parametres and limits to adhere to.
When we do original stuff... I still need to feel it...and that is the common theme. If you aren't inspired, it doesn't really matter what you
play, it probably wont sound so good.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1397517025' post='2424822']

To get back to music rather than continue with an analogy:

I doubt there is anybody playing in originals bands who hasn't sat down and worked out some of their favourite bass parts from other peoples' records. I've only ever played originals but I've certainly spent time at home, especially when I was younger, working out other peoples' bass parts.

The point is that some people eventually began having their own ideas.
[/quote]
True, but having your own ideas doesn't necessitate them being good ideas and having your own ideas is not intrinsically good.

Besides which, really original ideas are extremely rare because there is almost always a debt, a standing on the shoulders of others.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='cclowend' timestamp='1397541018' post='2424866']
The book analogy is a good one. There are thousands of good books out there that have never been read. A sad state. Also, if a book has already been written, why write it again?
[/quote]
Rewriting books/stories has been standard common and normal for thousands of years. Shakespeare, for example, did it over and over again.

Hollywood, for example, also does it all over and over again.

[Musicman20]

I may be fairly abnormal in this respect, but the majority of the reason I took up bass was because:

A) - It looked cool, it was bigger than a guitar;
B )- I liked how it sounded, and what it did to a song;
C) - I wanted to write songs and be creative.
D) - I wanted to gig.

D) can come from covers bands, but C) is just part of me. Like an artist who needs to paint, I need to create. I love letting people hear a new track which a band has perfected.

I do admire covers bands who spice it up and change the feel and/or style of the song though; that is quite cool.

C) meant I had to take up guitar, and I'm back into that again at the moment. I still would prefer to gig bass and be the bassist, but its nice to have an option to write then come up with a wicked bass line.

A new song I am working on was written on bass and I now have to write a much more 'relaxed' guitar part that is more in the background of the bass.

It's quite exciting in a way. I'm not fantastic on guitar or vocals, but I'm getting better, and modern recording means I can demo tracks myself and get basics right with a click track.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Musicman20

[Thurbs]

I have played in them all...

covers - which should be a tribute
covers - with lots of licence to embelish / change
Jazz standards
origionals - note for note someone elses line
origionals - 100%


They all have their pro's and con's and I get enjoyment out of doing them all.

Jazz standards have the best of all worlds IMHO with specific phrases you need to follow plus the improvisation, soloing etc.

The most important thing is it is done well.

[cclowend]

Okay, maybe playing covers is more akin to reading a book aloud rather than re-writing it. I do not have a problem with covers bands, the musicianship is awesome in some cases, I just don't get why some people only play covers.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='cclowend' timestamp='1397568408' post='2425204']...I just don't get why some people only play covers.[/quote]

This could do with a bit of breaking down....
There are several cases to be considered. Let's start with a bass player, playing in a 'covers' band. He( or 'she' implied...) wants to play original material (whilst still playing with the band; why not..?).
Option 1 - He invents his own bass lines. What else..? Nothing else, just the bass lines. Why not, but limited in scope, maybe, unless they're damned good bass lines. A case for a 'looper', maybe..?
Option 2 - He invents his own bass lines over original chords/melody played by someone else. He needs to tie up with that 'someone', hoping they come up with decent material
Option 3 - He does his own chords/melody, then does the original bass line. He has to come up with some decent chord/melodies. Can be done, of course, but it's not as easy as doing simply the bass (which is hard enough, for some...)
All of this without considering lyrics, which ideally have some sort of 'content' (something to say..?), and should be worth singing/listening to. Not easy at all. Sung by the bassist..? Someone else..? Lyrics are one thing, finding a singer quite another.
All of this is possible, of course, and there are some (many..?) that do, indeed, handle all of this. I can easily imagine, for my part, why this does not inspire all bassists, however (or drummers, I might add. Solo drums are rarely commercially successful...).
My outfit play covers. Some of us 'compose', but no way would any of us consider playing (or trying to...) 'live', any of our 'compositions'. Most are almost impossible in a 'rock group' context, and many are physically impossible on ordinary instruments. None have lyrics worthy of repeating, not by lewdness, but are simply bland. No, covers are fine for those without the 'spark' necessary for original creation. It's not a problem; even less a defence, merely an explanation as to why many do not take the 'originals' route. Respect to those that can, and do.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Dad3353

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='cclowend' timestamp='1397568408' post='2425204']
... I just don't get why some people only play covers.
[/quote]
I don't actually care one jot who wrote the song (by which I mean the lyrics and the melody) as long as it is a good song that I can assist in performing well.

I just don't get why some people think who wrote the song makes any difference to whether the music is any good.

For centuries anyway composers and musicians more generally have copied, borrowed, stolen re-arranged, etc. etc. while still managing to call it their own.

Edited April 15, 2014 by EssentialTension

[JTUK]

Agree,

Our criteria is only that it is a good song, and then that it will sit with the others.
Our singer writes good songs but it still needs to work with the tools we have..
and if it doesn't we wont include it.

So, a band will live or die by the music they play and the way they play it...
nothing else really comes into it, as far as I am concerned,

[Bigwan]

I came at bass the other way round. Always played in original bands, then a cover band later. Originals are whatever you want to make of them. Just remember to play for the song first and yourself second. There can be a glorious happy medium (Pino is the perfect example). I usually try and create the basis of a line first and then fill in the gaps using (again) Pino's trick of singing the fills (or the whole line) before trying to figure them out on bass. It'll certainly be more fulfilling for you than any cover band!

Edited April 15, 2014 by Bigwan

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1397582226' post='2425406']
... Pino is the perfect example ...
[/quote]
... yes, here he is playing a cover while stealing from Stravinsky ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju_a2-Pve4g

[Bigwan]

At least he admits it...

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1397586786' post='2425462']
At least he admits it...
[/quote]
I cant see what's to admit, it's a normal thing.

[Bigwan]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1397586879' post='2425466']

I cant see what's to admit, it's a normal thing.
[/quote]

Yes, but a lot of folk would claim full credit is my point, and if it happened to sound like some late 19th/early 20th century composer's work it's by pure chance...

[Weststarx]

You wouldn't have the inspiration to write your own songs if you didn't learn other peoples songs.

I'm in a covers band which I enjoy because its quick and easy to learn songs and to meet up and just play!

I'm itching to write my own stuff, I'd love to write some prog rock/metal, but the software to do so is far to much money. (If anyone has a cheap alternative please please please let me know)


The Beatles first ep/demo was all covers songs.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1397595550' post='2425585']
You wouldn't have the inspiration to write your own songs if you didn't learn other peoples songs.
[/quote]

Not at all the case for me. I started on the guitar and my "learning" of other peoples songs only extended as far as being able to competently strum through all the chord changes in the Beatles Complete song book. After that I was writing my own music and apart from a couple of "ironic" covers I did with my synth-rock band in the 80s, I didn't learn how to play any other songs that hadn't been written either by myself or a band mate for another 35 years until I did a brief stint in a covers band recently.

Edited April 15, 2014 by BigRedX

[discreet]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1397467578' post='2424072']
...It is a discipline like everything else.... so you will find plenty of original bass guys (and players )
that can't play Covers gigs as they don't have the discipline in their playing to do so.... and conversely
if someone has always learnt songs note for note, they can't pay outside of that 'direction'...
[/quote]

I agree. A very old friend of ours played guitar with our originals band recently with a view to joining - he is a fantastic guitarist and is in a highly successful covers band - he plays his parts absolutely to the note, with the right feel, too - AND he nails the tone and phrasing exactly.

But when he played with us he had not the slightest clue about what he was doing or even what he should be doing. He couldn't come up with any ideas. It wasn't a car crash exactly - he's too good for that, but he was WAY out of his comfort zone and decided he wasn't interested. Which is fair enough.

Edited April 15, 2014 by discreet