Decently made Wiring Harnesses, Are they worth it?

[Shockwave]

Hello all.

I have a cheapy Chinese Squier Affinity which I love. Obviously the components are cheapest of cheap. At the moment I am not looking to replace the pickups until something fairly cheap but decent come up. Until then, is there a noticable benefit if I go for a decent pre-wired wiring harness such as the one from KiOgon? What benefits do I gain from them?

Also, looking to emulate some of Tim Commerfords Rage Against the Machine Jazz tone. Should I be going for 250k or 500k? What cap? Etc. This is all new to me.

R

[KingBollock]

I would imagine that the main gain would be not having to go to the hassle of doing it all yourself; getting all the parts and putting it all together. And if you're unsure of your own abilities then you have the reassurance that it is a job well done and you don't have to worry about it.

To me, the fun is all in doing it for myself, but I've been wielding a soldering iron since I was 14 years old.

As for the capacitors, basically, the higher the value the more treble you can roll off, so they shouldn't make a difference of you don't use the tone knob. Some people say that you can get different tones from different types, but I'm not so sure about that. I, personally, use the Orange Sprague types because they are easy to get, not badly priced and good quality.

I get my parts from WD Music. They even do wiring kits that you put together yourself. If you don't need all the parts you can just look at what parts of the kit you do need and order separately.

http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/wiring-kits-175-c.asp

But this all depends on your confidence in your soldering ability.

Edit: Found this, thought it might help: http://www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiring_resources_guitar_wiring_diagrams.wiring_faqs/

Edited April 18, 2014 by KingBollock

[gary mac]

If you don't go down the DIY route, you certainly can't go wrong with one of Kiogons kits. I've had a few over the years. Quality components, quality workmanship and nice and easy to install.
Plus he is a fine fellow to deal with

[EmmettC]

I put new pots and pickup into my partners affinity bronco bass, the only thing to watch out for is check the space available in the control cavity. I ordered some cts pots and they were too wide for the cavity. I had to do a little routing, but it was worth it.

[hubrad]

Personally, I'd replace the pickups first, but it stands to reason that if every part of your signal path is as good as possible then the cumulative effect of even the most subtle improvements is a way better sound.
As for any specific player's tone, Scott Devine's vid on tone has a very valid point to make..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vUNUo3TbyI

[lemmywinks]

Some of the wiring harnesses floating about are stupidly expensive, I think I read on here that someone paid around £70 for one which is ridiculous. Personally I think there's as much woo and snake oil present as there is with vintage guitars and audiophile £1,000 kettle leads. Does "vintage" cloth wire really sound much better than the cheapo electrical wire you can salvage for free or buy for pence per metre? Do CTS pots sound any better than decent generic ones that aren't oversized and have standard size shafts?

Just make your own, it's easy and cheap. Get a variety of capacitors and see which ones sound best to you.

[Woodinblack]

Agree with above, it is snake oil. Just replacing the wiring loom will almost certainly make no difference unless there is something wrong with the one you have in the first place. If you do have something wrong, then it is very simple to fix it, there is nothing complicated to be found inside the wiring of a guitar.

[hubrad]

+1 for having an experiment yourself.. you either learn how this stuff works (as Woodinblack says, pretty straightforward stuff once you get the hang of it) or you realise what you pay others to do!
This book is brill.. taught me all the basics I needed to get down and dirty with my guitars! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Guitar-Electronics-for-Musicians-by-Donald-Brosnac-Paperback-1983-/331165569559?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item4d1b019217

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='lemmywinks' timestamp='1397898915' post='2428302']
Do CTS pots sound any better than decent generic ones that aren't oversized and have standard size shafts?
[/quote]
No but ime they will last a lot longer. Also the taper on some cheap pots is unsatisfactory.

[hamfist]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1397899495' post='2428309']
Agree with above, it is snake oil. Just replacing the wiring loom will almost certainly make no difference unless there is something wrong with the one you have in the first place. If you do have something wrong, then it is very simple to fix it, there is nothing complicated to be found inside the wiring of a guitar.
[/quote]

Agreed. It's the values of the pots and caps that are key. Their quality will only really affect how long they are likely to last. I also agree with Japanaxe that the taper on many cheaper pots is not as predictable as on many more expensive ones.

If you are looking for a RATM tone use 500K pots IMO. You're looking for a bright top end so the higher the pot value the less top end is rolled off. 500K seems about right for what you are trying to achieve, although it does depend on all sorts of factors to do with your signal chain too.

[Shockwave]

I reckon 500k would make things interesting I do like a brighter tone overall.

I would rather the convenience of a pre made harness. My time is worth more then the money. I am well aware that a basses sound is a sum of its parts, the improvements will be done in phases.

Is it worth to pay out extra for CTS over Alpha or Artec?

Edited April 19, 2014 by Shockwave

[Lozz196]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1397891372' post='2428216']
If you don't go down the DIY route, you certainly can't go wrong with one of Kiogons kits. I've had a few over the years. Quality components, quality workmanship and nice and easy to install.
Plus he is a fine fellow to deal with
[/quote]

+1. Ki0gon uses CTS pots and Switchcraft jacks, which would be my choice over other brands.

As others have said the sound is unlikely to change replacing like for like re wiring harnesses, however you`ll be replacing the cheaper parts with much better quality, so in theory less chance of any problems later on. Plus the advantage of these kits are if you decide to change pickups, instead of needing to be ok with a soldering iron, all you need is a screw-driver.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Lozz196

[lemmywinks]

I don't really see any difference between decent generic pots or CTS, or even other decent parts. The first set of CTS pots I bought failed (one of the volumes on a J setup) and had to be replaced, I've also had a Warwick volume pot fail on me. I've gigged basses with decent generic pots for years (90s basses) and had minimal problems, no better or worse than more expensive types.

Alpha pots are absolutely fine - they're nice and cheap (about £1.50 last time I looked), will last and sound exactly the same.

[hubrad]

Yup, go for the more reliable option.
Also, if you're paying someone to make a harness up for you, you'll be paying the same for their time so you may as well get the more rliable pots etc and only pay once for the labour.
I worked a stand at a guitar show a few years ago.. chap came up and looked at Strat switches. We had decent quality Japanese ones, at the time about 5 or 6 quid (still inexpensive compared to Switchcraft). 'I'm not paying that much for a switch; I'll only pay 2 pounds because I get through at least 3 a year.' Well, Duuhh!

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1397913719' post='2428561']
Plus the advantage of these kits are if you decide to change pickups, instead of needing to be ok with a soldering iron, all you need is a screw-driver.
[/quote]


Available in your nearest Poundland!

[Diablo]

Scott's vid has many good points, but why the hell can't people like him take themselves to play and show an A/B/C type compare? With the different bass lines he in playing and tossing around at it makes tone comparisons rather difficult, as in the different styles and tones he talks about are as much about what he is playing rather than how he is playing it. All skilful playing, all rather unnecessary IMHO.

[KingBollock]

As others have said, it will only make a difference if you are changing specs or repairing a fault.

I don't have much money so, usually, the cheaper the better. But CTS pots aren't that expensive. If I am repairing a fault or changing something, such as adding push-pull pots for coil tapping, or a blend pot, I like to replace everything (if it is all still stock, I have yet to have to repair anything that I have changed myself) so it all matches and looks nice. I like to use good quality components that aren't too expensive, and I mainly do it because I enjoy tinkering.

Soldering is an inexpensive, easy and useful skill to learn.

[yepmop]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1397891372' post='2428216']
If you don't go down the DIY route, you certainly can't go wrong with one of Kiogons kits. I've had a few over the years. Quality components, quality workmanship and nice and easy to install.
Plus he is a fine fellow to deal with
[/quote]

Huge +1 for this,, I too have bought a number of his harnesses of the past couple of years.

[Diablo]

If you are soldering stuff then you can do a lot worse than blow your entire budget on a 24v Weller iron, they are so much better than any 240v budget type iron you can buy. I run mine off a 4amp variable DC power supply (not a proper Weller supply - they are quite expensive) and it just does the job much better than any other iron I own.

Cheers,
Rich

[Shockwave]

I purchased KiOgon's Alpha mini pre-wired harness. I do know how to solder and solder very well, however I just havent the time devoted to it. I would have liked to get CTS pots, but would have had to replace the plate which is more expense. Pretty sure Alpha pots are just as good as CTS mind. Metal shafts etc. 250K VV and 500K Tone .047uf Cap.

Also picked up his Jazz brass Shielding kit!

Edited April 19, 2014 by Shockwave