Giving up playing live... things aren't what they used to be!

[warwickhunt]

I reached the decision a month or so back that I didn't have time to play live with my various bands/deps and took the decision to resign/stand down from my band; it has taken about that length of time to completely untangle my reasons. The main one was always that work (day job) commitments had increased such that I didn't have the time/energy/effort/emotion to put my all into the band. However, I also now realise that the local/pub music scene, which I have been part of for close on 35 years has changed in the last 5-10 years and there just isn't the desire for folks to get out and support local music scenes; this has probably had as much of a 'subliminal' impact on me and my taking the decision... or is it just that I have (dare I say it), 'grown up'?

Any other seasoned players (or possibly new players) finding the same?

[Mykesbass]

Hopefully you just need a break - I've only been actively playing the pub circuit for the last 9 years after a break of 10 or so years from playing rhythm guitar in an 18 piece big band. Yes it has changed a lot but can I be the first to say you'll be back?!!

[JTUK]

I took a break from all playing a while back as I got very jaded ... It wasn't all pub work but a combination of a lot of things made me re-evaluate, and work was in as a factor as well.
After 18 months, I picked up the bass again, and probably another 6 months working hard playing at home and I felt I would gig.
I am now very careful about the gigs I/we do. I wont do any gig just for the sake of it...
so who is on the gig, where it is, what it is, how much etc are all thngs that help me decide.
Pubs are now too much work for the money so they need to be places I want to play and they need to have a crowd.
Of course, the band itself needs to take responsibility here but the idea is to make the gig as pleasureable as possible
as the gig itself is not enough anymore and I don't want to burn myself out again

Of course the pub scene is not the same and there are more demands on pub goers than ever.
Cheap alcohol at home means people don't need to go out for a drink..and more pubs throwing
music nights together means the music loving clientele is spread pretty thin.

Pubs and venues need to be imaginative to get their punters in and bands have to work that aspect
as well.
To balance that, there are towns round here with about 6-7-8 pub/venues on certain nights and some
of those towns have a very healthy scene...and especially in the summer.

Take stock for a few months and don't force the urge to come back..if it isn't there it isn't there so patience
is all you have during this time, IMV.
The big downside is that if you become unavailable, people stop calling and it is so hard to make your way back from
that.... but there is nothing you can do about that..it is what it is.
The best healer is to get together a really pleasing musical situation... and maybe up the ante.

We made a decision to stay away from the pub scene and only do the pubs that we like...plus we put the money up
and do mostly parties.
So, what with better gigs and more money, plus not wanting to be out every week, I just about stay ahead..and keep
my enthusiam.
In short,...it all comes down to better gig experiences for me... I've been doing it too long to put up with any crap.

Edited April 19, 2014 by JTUK

[JapanAxe]

I reckon we are a similar age. I am playing more than ever, but on the country circuit and in WM clubs, and only occasionally in pubs. I was playing the pub circuit regularly up to about 5 years ago, and the things that got me down most were:
1. Difficult loading in/out through narrow doors and p!ssed-up punters into tiny and unsuitable spaces;
2. Risk of damage to self and kit from drunken eejits; and
3. The bunce hasn't gone up in 10 years!

I did a stint in a tribute band which was better on all the above points. I suppose the common factor, and what got me down the most, was the feeling that the people booking the band just didn't give a toss. On the country circuit, organisers make you feel welcome, and most will at least get you a cup of tea when you arrive. I guess it comes down to being valued for what you do.

[jonsmith]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1397924156' post='2428705']

1. Difficult loading in/out through narrow doors and p!ssed-up punters into tiny and unsuitable spaces;

[/quote]

Why is it that when you're obviously struggling in with something large and heavy, so many people seem to see that as the cue to block the narrow passageway between the bar and the stage and stare at you blankly, as if waiting for a fight? Fortunately, most of these types seem to leave before the gig itself.

[flyfisher]

I wonder about the need to struggle with anything large and heavy these days. We played a gig yesterday afternoon in a pub garden (bit cool, but nice and sunny) and I took my TC Electronic BH250 and RS210 cab. Because it was an outdoor gig I also had my RS212 in the car just in case I needed a bit more volume but in the end I didn't need it. The vocal-only PA was a Yamaha stagepas 212 (200W I think) and that was also more than adequate.

OK, we're not a thrash-metal-bleeding-ear band but I'm increasingly of the view that it really isn't necessary to play so loud that people have to shout into someone's ear from 6 inches just to make themselves heard. Most people (I presume) don't play their music at home at volumes necessitating ear defenders so why is it necessary at a gig? Perhaps this is just another in the long list of reasons why pubs are in decline?

[warwickhunt]

Wise words from all but I'll keep a little acoustic band going to keep my hand in (1 gig every other month but only those we WANT to do), it does raise the dilemma of equipment as it has taken me a long time to settle on the gear that I have (amp/cab) but I reached the decision today that I'll move the hardware on but keep most of my basses... IF I decide to get back into it I can always look back on BC for used quality gear!

I do think that the music scene has changed and unless you have a very strong USP or a long established fan base then even a good covers band doesn't get the recognition and support that it used to get some years ago.

[JapanAxe]

On the way out of posh marquee gigs (yet another former band), I used to have fun by shouting 'gangway!' before ploughing through the Hooray Henries with my 2x12 on casters. They were too hammered to realise what had just taken out their shins, and they'd had fair warning anyway!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1397926730' post='2428748']
I do think that the music scene has changed and unless you have a very strong USP or a long established fan base then even a good covers band doesn't get the recognition and support that it used to get some years ago.
[/quote]

I also think this applies to original bands. I can honestly say as much as I will always love the North East, I had a much busier musical life back in my tiny home town! I guess its who you know etc, and I've seen fantastic bands up here, but barely any of them from here.

I have also not been playing in a band since the last originals band became too hard work, (e.g. I did EVERYTHING and I'm working the most hours). Work has taken over a lot of my evenings as well as daytime, due to events I'm part of. Work is great and I can't complain, but I miss being in a decent band writing their own music.

[jonsmith]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1397926684' post='2428747']
I wonder about the need to struggle with anything large and heavy these days. We played a gig yesterday afternoon in a pub garden (bit cool, but nice and sunny) and I took my TC Electronic BH250 and RS210 cab. Because it was an outdoor gig I also had my RS212 in the car just in case I needed a bit more volume but in the end I didn't need it. The vocal-only PA was a Yamaha stagepas 212 (200W I think) and that was also more than adequate.

[/quote]

Quite - and I have downsized my rig considerably (in fact I was a pretty early user of the RH450). However even my RS212 becomes pretty large & heavy when I've carried it half a mile (from the nearest available & legal place to park). Weighted 88 key keyboards tend to be rather awkward too, as are Taurus 3s. Most decent people will get out of the way when they see you carrying a kick drum, but there are often people who don't. However, to be honest I have the same gripe about people being deliberately awkward when I'm carrying a guitar stand - someone blocking the way to the stage is behaving ignorantly regardless of what I'm carrying.

Here's what disappoints me about the live music scene these days. Last night I played on a bill with five other bands. The venue was very pleasant & the sound guy was good, personable & efficient. A wide range of music was presented, including a singer songwriter on piano, Americana, folk, LA punk & an accomplished pop/rock outfit. Although it wasn't all my cup of tea, all of the acts were good at what they did and I'm pretty certain that most people would have found something there that they enjoyed. Each act was well received by a warm audience. However I'm almost certain that there wasn't a single person in that audience who wasn't either in one of the other bands or a roadie or mate of one of the other bands. A night of great original entertainment and nobody beyond the bands even cared.

Edited April 19, 2014 by jonsmith

[drTStingray]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1397926826' post='2428751']
On the way out of posh marquee gigs (yet another former band), I used to have fun by shouting 'gangway!' before ploughing through the Hooray Henries with my 2x12 on casters. They were too hammered to realise what had just taken out their shins, and they'd had fair warning anyway!
[/quote]

It works in pubs as well!!! Drummers carrying a bass drum are particularly adept at this.

[icastle]

I'm sure the same discussion has been held every decade.

Things are never 'what they used to be' and it really all depends on how well you are able to ride those changes should you decide to try to.

[oldmanrock]

[quote name='jonsmith' timestamp='1397925798' post='2428728']

Why is it that when you're obviously struggling in with something large and heavy, so many people seem to see that as the cue to block the narrow passageway between the bar and the stage and stare at you blankly, as if waiting for a fight? Fortunately, most of these types seem to leave before the gig itself.
[/quote]

Because some people are as thick as the door they're blocking!

Edited April 20, 2014 by oldmanrock

[flyfisher]

[quote name='jonsmith' timestamp='1397930907' post='2428792']
Quite - and I have downsized my rig considerably (in fact I was a pretty early user of the RH450). However even my RS212 becomes pretty large & heavy when I've carried it half a mile (from the nearest available & legal place to park). Weighted 88 key keyboards tend to be rather awkward too, as are Taurus 3s. Most decent people will get out of the way when they see you carrying a kick drum, but there are often people who don't. However, to be honest I have the same gripe about people being deliberately awkward when I'm carrying a guitar stand - someone blocking the way to the stage is behaving ignorantly regardless of what I'm carrying.
[/quote]

Yep, I wouldn't like to carry the RS210 half a mile, never mind the 212. I'm fortunate to have Mrs FF as a driver at most gigs, so she'll park up outside the venue while I unload and then drive off to park somewhere. There are certainly some places I wouldn't want to play without such an arrangement.

As for people being deliberately awkward, I think I've been generally lucky to avoid them, though I can recall a few such occasions. If it was a regular thing, plus carrying gear long distances, then I'd also think very seriously about not bothering.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1397936785' post='2428879']
I'm sure the same discussion has been held every decade.

Things are never 'what they used to be' and it really all depends on how well you are able to ride those changes should you decide to try to.
[/quote]

I'm in my 4th decade of being a paid gigging musician (part-time) and I can't ever recall the gig scene to be as disheartening as it is at present; pubs have taken a nose-dive in punter attendances and I have to agree that by and large there are more instances of idiots around at gigs (generally not there for the music).

[JTUK]

That is true so that is why I say you need to be more discerning with the gigs you do.
I wont play a pub that I wouldn't normally drink in or be happy to...
If the pub has a reputaion of being a bit rough...I am not going to try and sell it
to people either, so no point actually playing it either.
Playing area and viewing area too small..?? forget it. Crap load-in..?
Bad parking...
I accept that pubs are only using bands to turn-over money but there needs to be
a two-way benefit and you don't appear to be feeling you are getting it.

I doubt you can fix this in the short term by getting paid more for the hassle,
so a break is what you should do... but the goal should be that the pubs need your band more
that you need them..for starters, when you come back.

[Japhet]

I've played pubs for donkeys years. I always say that I play the music free of charge because I love doing it, but I get paid to lug the gear in and out. £50 or whatever for 30 minutes work seems pretty good to me.

[JTUK]

Was having the same discussion last night. If I had to lug in the gear, set it all up, wait round for 3 hours, break it down
and carry it out for some one else, I wouldn't be doing it for £50..that is for sure.

[lozbass]

Following 15 years of constant gigging, rehearsing, recording, I gave up all live work a little over 20 years ago (one mate's wedding apart) and haven't missed it at all. Jerks in boozers, difficult stage managers, boring long journeys, prima donna and drug addled band mates, poor money, ddwindling crowds, shark promoters...

Don't get me wrong, there were some ecstatic high points but the disenchantment accelerated rapidly and I found more fulfilling things to do. I enjoy playing bass (and messing around with basses) more than ever but I don't feel any need to return to playing live or playing with other people

[mcgraham]

I was just chatting about this with another friend, and we've both decided we're each happy leaving gigging behind for the foreseeable future. Not necessarily through being disenfranchised by it all, but just that our first love is making music, and that the act of gigging is a bonus that falls much further down the list than just having time to make music and enjoy making it in the first place.

It's a cultural lie that unless you're out there 'doing it' then you shouldn't be doing it, or that you're wasting your time, and this is particularly prevalent in music. Personally, I just want time to make music and fiddle with musical notes, and I want some nice instruments to do it on. It's no different than those who like cycling having a nice bike and going on daily/weekly rides... it doesn't make them any less of a cyclist just because they don't compete in competitions or do regular group cycles.

Both of us are around 30, so not exactly pushing retirement, but I know we are both feeling pretty released from the perceived 'pressure' we were putting ourselves under to 'get out there and do it!'. It's just so nice to make music for no other reason than i like doing it!

[Musicman20]

I spent about 8 hours this past 4 days learning new guitar parts, tuning/checking the basses and playing ones I don't her chance to, and writing with the aid of recording software. In 3 months ive learnt how to record at a basic level and put bass down to a good standard with some half decent guitar over the top.

I don't presently miss being in a covers but the time I've has to write and practice has been great! Hopefully I'll meet like minded people soon and get this music played by a full band.

Agree with JTUK...£50 for a full evening, travel, load ins, etc, isn't worth it!

Edited April 21, 2014 by Musicman20

[Dad3353]

What a load of softy pussy-footing wimps, eh..?

Here's what the good gig circuit was like in the '60s...

[quote]McCartney later said, "We lived backstage in the Bambi Kino, next to the toilets, and you could always smell them. The room had been an old storeroom, and there were just concrete walls and nothing else. No heat, no wallpaper, not a lick of paint; and two sets of bunk beds, with not very much covers—Union Jack flags—we were frozen." Lennon remembered: "We were put in this pigsty. We were living in a toilet, like right next to the ladies' toilet. We'd go to bed late and be woken up next day by the sound of the cinema show and old German fraus [women] pissing next door." After having been awoken in this fashion, the group were then obliged to use cold water from the urinals for washing and shaving. They were paid £2.50 each a day, seven days a week, playing from 8:30-9:30, 10 until 11, 11:30-12:30, and finishing the evening playing from one until two o'clock in the morning. German customers found the group's name comical, as "Beatles" sounded like "Peedles", which meant a small boy's penis.[/quote]

Want to read more..?

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_in_Hamburg"]Wikipedia: Beatles in Hamburg...[/url]

Still want to be a 'star'..? The British circuit was perhaps slightly less uncomfortable, but paid much less.
Things ain't what they used to be eh..? Gerraway..! Never 'ad it so good..!

[lemmywinks]

We do most of our gigs out of town, there are some nice little brewery circuits and music pubs/venues if we travel a bit more (nothing crazy) whereas locally it's been dying for a long time. In fact I enjoy gigging now much more than I used to!

[CHW]

I played the pub circuit back in my late teens and we could always fill venues, generally the upstairs function room of a pub, charging a couple of quid on the door to the local sixth form students(of whom I was one of), and a few aging rockers.

When I returned to gigging after uni, I ended up joining a ceilidh band. This was very different to a trad "Rock" band scenario as most of the tunes were learned by the band prior to any practice, the practice was acoustic and therefore in one of our front rooms, practice was purely about arrangements, gigs were village halls, marquees, function rooms or outdoors and were booked for weddings, birthdays, fundraisers and events. I did this for 10 years happily averaging a gig a month, taking home £40.00 for not a huge amount of work.

Returning to the pub scene in my current band, I am finding it very different. Pubs seem to struggle to come up with £200.00 to pay a band pubs are empty in comparison to how they were when I was a kid (smoking ban?)

[CHW]

There also seems to be a lot more of the "Ipod squad" People turning up with an Ipod and an SM58 and singing along to backing tracks- totally sound adjustable, and consistent for the pub.